[January Discussion Topic] eSports

[protoss wrath]

the january discussion thread is up:
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread....l&T=250950&P=1
The topic is esports

posted by karuneJanuary Discussion Topic of the Month: eSports
Blizzard has a tradition of supporting competitive play. We have seen our games thrive to become popular eSports titles played in leagues worldwide. For StarCraft II we would like to continue in this spirit and offer you an enjoyable experience as a spectator, shoutcaster or participant in tournaments. We'd like to hear your opinion on eSports!

If you have a StarCraft II fan site and would like to participate, please email me at Karune@blizzard.com.

eSports Questions for Fans:
* How do you experience eSports?
* What should a game offer to make it a good eSports game?
* What would you like to see in StarCraft II to enhance the eSports experience?

* Additional Feedback you would like to give

Each StarCraft II fansite will be featuring different types of questions, so be sure to also visit those sites. All of this feedback will be compiled and sent to the dev team and I.

Please structure feedback as follows:

-----

<question you'd like to answer>
<your answer>

<question you'd like to answer>
<your answer>

-----

Looking forward to some great discussions on eSports!

(mods you may sticky this if you like)

[Zergums]

I feel like they're doing this one just so no1 complains
I doubt they're going to read it they got their own idea lol

[pureWasted]

* What should a game offer to make it a good eSports game?

There has to be at least some tiny amount of customization available for a game to make a good eSport contender... at least in this day and age. A way to discern players through screenshots, a way for a player to visually (because that's the only 'sense' that matters when watching eSports) separate his identity from others. World of WarCraft's Arenas allow players to have an avatar of a race and appearance that they think suits/represents them, and even wear some clothing that also gives them their own identity, such as the choice to wear a tabard or to have the shirt showing or to have neither. Maybe take out a rare pet and flaunt it, etc. Even CS allows players to choose from 4 CTs or Ts to play as, and allows people to have their own sprays that identify them.

This is important because it helps build the top players from simply machines into actual people, give them celebrity status for their ability to express individuality outside of the gameplay itself. With the amount of dedicated fans SC has in Korea, can you imagine what would happen if players had "sprays" like in CS? People would wear shirts with those sprays on them to events, slogans can become in-jokes and catch phrases in themselves. I am most definitely NOT advocating that players in SC can spray the terrain or something, but this is just an example of how competition and unique, individualized symbols can rise above simple gaming into something else. Think of actual sports, the way a player has:

1. a jersey with his team's symbols and colors on it, which do not change from game to game
2. his own name and number on the jersey, which also don't change from game to game

Players come to games cheering any one of those things, if not all of them. Supporting some single player or team becomes an event in itself. I believe that there is absolutely NOTHING preventing modern gaming from emulating at least some minimum standards of individualization. Catch phrases, shirts with easily recognizable symbols associated with pro players, all of these things tend to travel as word of mouth and create hype... and that can only be a very, very good thing.


* What would you like to see in StarCraft II to enhance the eSports experience?

OK, so now we get to the specifics. What can StarCraft 2, being the RTS that it is, possibly do to bring in that -- at least -- minimum level of customization that can be seen while watching the game? Options start from the most basic to the most extreme, depending on how much work Blizzard wants to put into this. Personally, I would go the whole 9 yards, but this game isn't being made for me personally, so that is that!

1. Allow players to choose their colors in all matches, and allow a far greater range of colors than what is available, so that a certain player might be identified in a screenshot simply because of the color scheme of his units, which he would probably keep the same from game to game.
2. Provide players with the ability to choose between a few very similar but not identical appearances for a couple of units/buildings that are likely to see a lot of use. The most basic example is that one Marine design might simply have a different color scheme than the next (ie team color is in different areas of the body). A Pylon crystal might be chosen as "standard blue" instead of matching team color as it regularly does, for example. If you want to complicate it a little, you could provide models that differ a tiny amount from one to the next... maybe a player can choose for his Carrier to look like the golden Tempest we have now or the original golden banana we had in SC1. The choice for which unit models/team color schemes to use would be made before a match's start (saved in a player's profile, most likely) and would obviously have absolutely NO impact on gameplay. Obviously.
3. Maybe instead of picking individual models or color schemes, models and color schemes would belong to separate factions. Such as... in my profile, I can set to playing as Raynor's Raiders any time I'm playing Terran. That means my units would look a tiny bit more beat up than is usual (slightly altered textures) and maybe instead of the regular color of a Marine (apart from the team color) would be black instead of the standard gray, to match with the concept art of Jimmy in what can only be assumed to be standard RR gear. (http://www.starcraft2.com/art.xml?s=63)
4. Allow players to choose the portrait that appears when a building is selected. Maybe it would be tied in with the faction chosen (^), so instead of it being a cyborg woman if I'm playing Raynor's Raiders I get one of his aides from the campaigns, or somesuch or other.

I'm having trouble coming up with anything else without adding something to the game that wasn't there before. Flags or banners, for example, with a pre-chosen insignia (from some standard choices or even custom ones) appearing on them might be cool, but I'm not sure how or why flags or banners might appear in SC2.

Maybe none of the above ideas are any good, but the important thing is just to keep in mind the necessity of providing at least some minimum amount of customization. Blizzard, please learn your lesson from WoW. People are still disappointed with the low level of customization and only in the second expansion are you starting to address that for the pre-existing races. Just because SC2 is an RTS doesn't change the fact that people want to be recognized as individuals with their own style or sense of humor or whatever, instead of just mindless, personality-less machines that point and click.

[SuperKiller]

* How do you experience eSports?

through well-made ladders, tournaments, competitions ect. and a bit through the progaming scene.

* What should a game offer to make it a good eSports game?

the above. player commentaries, fpvods, videos, and watching replays with and of other competing or high level players are the things that keeps me interested. and of course, no esports is complete without its pimpest plays (leave it to sclegacy!)

* What would you like to see in StarCraft II to enhance the eSports experience?

-keep units and ideas open, and don't bottle units down to overly-specific roles. let players discover for themselves how to use units in many different and creative ways.

-plenty of blizzard support to the competitive scene.

[Waves]

Originally Posted by pureWasted

customization

Some of what you're suggesting could be implemented on the Battle.Net profile pages for the players. A greater variety of portrait uses, for example. An area that listed tournament victories and significant placings (I'm expecting more tournaments on Battle.Net).

Note that a major part of the customization experience for players is actually in choosing a nick to play with.

[pureWasted]

Originally Posted by Waves

Some of what you're suggesting could be implemented on the Battle.Net profile pages for the players. A greater variety of portrait uses, for example. An area that listed tournament victories and significant placings (I'm expecting more tournaments on Battle.Net).

Note that a major part of the customization experience for players is actually in choosing a nick to play with.

Agreed. Then again, compare with WoW Arena combat, where a player can choose his faction, his race, his specific appearance, some gear (shirts, etc), and accessories (pets) apart from the name. None of those factors influence gameplay inside the arena (except races, and even so that's arguably an insignificant influence), but all of them are things that allow a player (and a team by extension) to stand out from their peers.

Any player in any game can choose his nick. Blizzard shouldn't get points for that as it is no more a privilege than allowing players to choose their race in an RTS game. You just do it, it's not customization.

For a game to become something more than just a video game in an eSport community, I believe customization plays a pivotal role. The gameplay comes first and foremost and is the deciding factor on whether a game may even be eligible for eSport status, but it's that sort of peer-status that customization offers that can make a video game eSport into a veritable phenomenon, and a true sport.

As for implementing it on the profile pages -- to an extent, you're right... but a profile page only goes so far. It's like saying that in WoW arena PVP, a description of your character in your guild's profile (only accessible by guildmates) is a way of customizing your identity: even if it is one (which the WoW example wouldn't be), it's still too far out of the way. The whole purpose of this, as I'm taking it, is to truly make an event out of eSports so that it's worthy of having "sports" in the title. That means the customization has to be in the game itself as people are playing, not somewhere outside of it as a little side-note.


Most of my suggestions were pretty radical and I do understand that completely. If I can come up with anything that isn't so extreme before the month is over, I'll most definitely add it. But for now, those are the only 'RTS+customization' ideas that immediately come to mind. Anyway the point isn't following through on a specific suggestion here, the point is that providing players with a way to express their unique identity and persona during the game is the right direction to move in, especially for a game that expects attention as an eSport. If I got people thinking about that in general, apart from any specific ideas, then my mission is already accomplished. :p

[SpiderBrigade]

Blizzard has to decide if they want to make a game that allows a lively "eSports" community or if they want to actively create one. StarCraft 1 is definitely the former.

Playing pickup games on battle.net as it currently exists doesn't really constitute an eSport - all the real action is in ladders/tournaments is run by other organizations as far as I can tell. The most serious games are either in person (various Korean leagues) or on carefully-controlled networks, often with 3rd-party antihack programs.

What I'd like to see is for Blizzard themselves to get into this action and become the arbiters of SC2 as an eSport. Several ways they can do this:

One option is to create a pure AMM-driven ladder system. This has the advantage of being really democratic - hypothetically the really good players will rise to the top and get recognition from everyone else. On the other hand, huge free-for-all ladders like this are hard to police and keep interesting, especially for a game with a worldwide player base. You also run into problems with hacks etc.

Another option would be for Blizzard to facilitate the creation of a number of fan-run leagues within Battle.Net. Perhaps fan communities of a given size could petition to form a new league, and Blizzard would help them set up the specifics. The top players from these leagues would then compete in the main Blizzard tournaments to win acclaim not only for themselves, but for their community.

Whichever method (or combination) that Blizzard settles on, they need to participate in the "star-making" process. Winning at Blizzard's tournaments has to be a defining feature of a top gamer. Right now it's more like people who have already proven themselves elsewhere will get invited to Blizzard events - and they don't even always show up!

One final thought - Blizzard will have to get more visible in the Korean pro-gaming scene if they really want to be a player. To use a football analogy, right now Blizzard is basically the company that manufactures the balls and equipment - they need to be the NFL.

[ksm]

I've to say that lately im a little worried about MBS and AutoMine...

First I was indifferent. I've played SC for almost 2 years, but never trying to be 'pro'. Just for fun with friends and that. I play almost every day when I can. My apm is around 120~

I think SC2 should have a lot of things to do, like in SCBW. That's really fun. That's what makes watching a progamer replay really entertaining, because you see things that you hardly will do. I dont know.

And with AutoMine, what Im going to do the in the first minutes of a game? Just build workers? I dont know... im a little confused.

I must say that when I started playing SC, i thought "Why I cant select all my barracks in one group and build marines from all of them?" Because by that time, i had played Age of Empires where you could do things like that.

But know I think that with that stuff, matches wont be so fun like they are now.

Well... just an opinion.

[Waves]

Originally Posted by ksm

And with AutoMine, what Im going to do the in the first minutes of a game? Just build workers?

You start off with six workers now, which cuts out quite a bit of the "dead time" at the beginning of a game.

[zeratul11]

"* What would you like to see in StarCraft II to enhance the eSports experience? "

day and night cycle (optional or not) which affects gameplay. some units get benefits from nightime and vice versa. if this is implemented then more complex strategies will be put to the test.

let say the cycle turns every 12 minutes in game.

[Mazer]

Needs to support betting real money on games and tournaments easily, i.e. having a battle.net "account" which you top up or cash out from with your credit card. You use the money in your account to bet on games (e.g. someone is talking shit in a channel, so you both bet $50 on a 1v1 or whatever), or enter tournaments (e.g. automatically organised tournaments where you buy in for a set amount and the tournament starts when enough people have signed up, then the entry fees are distributed between the top 3 finishers).

Having real money at stake would make things much more exciting, help to attract and retain better players, and make a lot of money for Blizzard if they took a small cut of each bet / tournament made.

[SpiderBrigade]

I think allowing wagers is a terrible idea, actually, in an anonymous large-population setting like BNet where you already have problems with griefing and dishonesty.

If you want to offer monetary incentives, which I think is a decent idea, the tournament idea is much better . Prizes could be cash or goods of some kind. That still gives the best players a chance to be rewarded (encouraging skill etc) without opening things up for scammers.

[Norfindel]

* What should a game offer to make it a good eSports game?
* What would you like to see in StarCraft II to enhance the eSports experience?

Probably the most important thing is balance. I think that everyone heared sometime that P > T > Z > P in SC1, while the ideal would be that all matchups are equally difficult. All races should have some way of countering the enemy units with reasonable losses, and cost effectively.
Another thing is trying to control the cheaters in Battle.net. There are some programs that can detect if the players are using a hack. I never used them, but heared that they work, and are even required to play some ladders. It probably would be a good idea to include that sort of thing in the game itself.
The game must be dynamic, fast-playing, and there should be the least amount of randomness possible.
A better interface for Battle.net would be nice.
Audio communication for the players in addition to chat would be good for 2v2 games.
That's all i can think by now.

[Logabob]

I'll only mention a few minor things:

1. An easy to use system for watching replays and shoutcasting them; if I download the replay, I'd like it to open with starcraft2 at the touch of a button. Further, it would be nice if the commentary feature was built in. A "through the eyes" feature which allows you to see what the player is looking at, and tracks their mouse would be cool. Of course, this may or may not be compatible with the engine or something (not that I'm much of a computer wiz), but rewinding replays would be very cool.

[Kaibol]

* How do you experience eSports?
I experience E-sports through user rank and stats automatically understood by either looking at the users avatar or clicking on their information to show ranking, biography, photograph, etc.

* What should a game offer to make it a good eSports game?

- USER CUSTOMIZATION
- FREE PLAY
- Lounging Areas (diablo towns and such), as in being able to SEE everyone that is only at that specific moment to give a scope of what your "walking" into (like an ARENA)
- Fast gameplay and unlimited options at any moment
- Customized TAUNTING
- Customized Proof of Win to make the other players feel bad
- Voice Chat
- UI customization

* What would you like to see in StarCraft II to enhance the eSports experience?

- User customized interface (Ex. Protoss interface, move, attack, etc can change through a few previously selected colors. If the race can change colors why wouldn't the interface change colors as well???) Dockability, Resizability, tab selection, like Adobe Products but much more visually appealing (do this in the map editor as well)
- PLEASE, a LOUNGE area/arena :somewhere in some form of space where one can move around and talk to each other and have an avatar to accompany them. I wouldnt mind if, with all your WOW skills, you just made a small little town for each race or chat room. Just do something other than a chatroom because those can be so boring..
- Add extra games, like Starcraft Chess, Starcraft Ping Pong.. Etc.

- AUDIENCE UI
with plenty of options. When watching a live game the voyeur can: Chat with other people; Have their own audience unit specifically designed for people to move around in while watching the game (like a crazy SC blimp) that players cant see; Betting System (seriously) as in fake gambling during the game the audience members can deal with, after the game is won the players get to see who bet on them; counter-strike camera ability, as in the ability to move freely and zoom into anything and everything you want, including FIRST-PERSON; Complete Player Views (mouse movements and all); Photography Ability (I saw that depth of field in the demo, how hard would it be to let the players have a digital camera during the game? The pokemon game did it. Think of the 'tabloid' possibility, professional e-sports photography!!) For real, if your into games and you dont have that last one, your destroying the chance of the medium. (And to hell with "print-screen")

-VOICE CHAT (VC to ALL, VC to TEAM, VC to PLAYER)
- If the player has a lounge avatar, let the avatar roam around in game (like a hero unit) but it has no abilitys whatsoever and very little hit-points (for submerging the player in the game only) Maybe let him go inside buildings and stuff.
- WINNING THE GAME EFFECTS; explosions, graffiti, audience members running into the game all make real sports that much more involving and epic, if there were possibilites for the player to shoot off fireworks from their main command centers when destroying a player that the destroyed player is forced to look at before getting kicked out (the typical Defeat! Victory! Window is extremely dull) A victory should have visual stimulus the accompany the feeling. Maybe an audio file that plays customized dialogue that is pre-recorded for the game specifically, that the player can choose from other people hear after victory (ex. a ghost saying something demeaning) THINK about THIS ONE! Especially on the final tally board, SHOW ME the stars of rank hitting the player that just beat me, SHOW ME the medals of honor terran players recieve, or the carving a zerg commander receives on their carapace to mark their victory. I NEED depth to the win lose, thats why sports are so big because there are so many outlets to find out who won and how big of a win it was. LET ME HEAR the player owning his victory, LET ME SAY something in return if i lost thats not just voice chat.

But if it comes down to it, Just create a whole other world BEYOND THE ACTUAL GAME that the players reflect on the fact that they are winners and losers, instead of simply clicking on their name and seeing a number.

Thanks for the Read!
I am up for any additional question or possible Beta-testing.

Contact: Drewcalkin@gmail.com

Thanks again!





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