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Old 12-12-2007
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United States LordofAscension
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Default [December Discussion Topic] Art Direction

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December Discussion Topic: Artistic Direction of StarCraft II

As everyone has already seen, StarCraft II has brought the world of StarCraft into 3D and added many new units, landscapes, and effects that have never been seen before. On this journey of consistent artistic evolution, we have seen Warp Rays changed to escort ships, the infamous Carrier brought back into action, and even the Siege Tank get a makeover. There is still much left to this artistic journey and now is the community's chance to let us know what you love about StarCraft II visually and what you would change.


Community Questions for Fans:

* Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
* How does the Terran faction look visually?
* How does the Protoss faction look visually?

* Additional Feedback you would like to give

Please structure feedback as follows:

-----

<question you'd like to answer>
<your answer>

<question you'd like to answer>
<your answer>

-----

We are looking forward to some great discussions about the StarCraft II visuals!
What overall theme do you think fits the SC universe best? (ie realistic, huge disproportionalities, etc)

Do you feel that SCII's art is more like SC or WCIII?

How much cartooniness is necessary in the SC universe?

How should the switch to 3d affect this universe's art?

Do you like SCII's art style?


Please keep this thread free of spam. Know that at the end of the month I will compile the feedback and send it directly to Blizzard! Be heard here! I've been getting compliments on our discussions! Keep it up guys!

~LoA

Official Battle.net Feedback Thread
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Old 12-12-2007
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Awesome. I've been waiting for something like this. Here we go.

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Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
Most of them, yes. Its the new ice terrain that i'm not a fan of. It looks like a picture of cracked ice with no manipulations by the texture artist. Or rather a picture of a flat marble-like surface(moon). Whatever it is, it doesn't look like snow.

One other thing i don't like about the terrain is that the cliffs are blurred.

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How does the Terran faction look visually?
SCV - I think we need to lose the hands. The new clamps they have for hands really bothers me.

Siege Tank - Better than before. But now the barrel is a flying disk launcher...and it has leds. I think it would be best if the cannon looked more akin to the original.

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How does the Protoss faction look visually?
First off: team colors. Pylon crystals,psi blades and archons should not be team colored. If anything, it destroys each unit's distinctiveness and it makes the game look like a fruit loops box.

Probe and Observer - I think their models look too similar for comfort. Something to distinguish them more from each other would be desirable.

Carrier - Needs its own model. Bringing a unit back for the sake of nostalgia and giving it an unfitting model is ridiculous.

Dark Templar - The appearance of the scythes needs to be redone. Right now they look too solid, they need to appear more energy-like.

High Templar - It looks like a floating mummy. -____-

Collosus - I would consider changing the color of the beams. Perhaps to red or blue.

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How does the Zerg faction look visually?
Zergling - needs to be remade asap. It should be a feral velociraptor-like dog as opposed to a maggot-like mosquito.

Mutalisk - Too many spikes on it. Theres something wrong with it...i just can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps it doesn't look organic enough. I think it needs to be redone.

It seems like the visual upgrades for most of the new zerg units consists of beefing them up with more spikes. I'd like to see something a little more creative.

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What overall theme do you think fits the SC universe best? (ie realistic, huge disproportionalities, etc)
Mostly realistic with a tad of dis-proportionality ie. marines with huge shoulder pads, protoss power suits with hoops. Its these things that made the original starcraft so appealing.
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Do you feel that SCII's art is more like SC or WCIII?
WCIII
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How much cartooniness is necessary in the SC universe?
As little as possible,but enough to optimize gameplay.

Last edited by Gradius; 12-12-2007 at 04:05 PM.


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Old 12-12-2007
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Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
Of course they need improvement as everything else, but, yes.
The "comet" doodad on space platform tileset looks better brown than green.
Ice Terrain needs lots(more then the others) of work.
Weather effects will give other feeling to the game.
Doodads with creep and other zerg related stuff will be a great addition.

Quote
How does the Terran faction look visually?
The main things are:
SCV: flames should be orange
Marine: is fine.
Reaper: has lots of teamcolour.
Medic: is fine too.
Ghost: at least take the white stuff and put dark.
Firebat:no comment
Siege Tank: need a model change, again.
Thor: is cool, don't shrink it plz.
Droship: great.
Viking: great too.
Banshee: should be more soft like in the cinematic, and take that blue light.
BattleCruiser: now it doesnt look so big and majestic like the original. Why??
Nomad: i hate Nomad Model but when i imagine it without that yellow looks cool.
All buildings and units need to be... (i dont know how to say in english but the other posters have said that lots of times, "gritier" or something like that)

Quote
How does the Protoss faction look visually?
Probe: ok
Zealot: change the model.
Immortal: Boring but is ok.
Stalker: is fine.
Phase Prism: fine too.
Colossus: lasers should be blue(or red)
Phoenix: ok too
Observer: to similar with Probe
DT: Need a model change. Samwise is better for WC than SC, artwork is great but, dont belong to starcraft...
HT: Same as DT, Psi Storm should be blue, not purple
TA: Nothing to do with art but i need to say: need spells and to be made only from a DT and HT. Model is pretty cool.
Warp Ray: Read somewhere they change it, so, not enouph info to say...
Carrier: Somethings are better before, blizzard is being lazy keeping Tempest model.
Mothership: fine.
Crystals, psi blades and archons should not be team colored.
I want more units made of dark templar metal or remove all of them.

Additional feedback:
Overlord's kind of sacks should be removed
I love Samwise art but he is giving warcraft influence to starcraft, i think

I will edit when i remember more things....

Last edited by WizMaster; 12-20-2007 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 12-12-2007
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* Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
All of them are very nice though the jungle terrain is still a little bit too bright. All of the cliffs could use some more work also.

* How does the Terran faction look visually?
The Terran faction as a whole looks rather plasticy. All units and buildings should have a layer of rust and grit much like the original.

* How does the Protoss faction look visually?
Overall the units and buildings look good though there are a few units which don't feel right such as the Zealot. It seems too much like an assassin and less like a warrior. The feet of all bipedal Protoss units look like hooves instead of feet.

* What overall theme do you think fits the SC universe best? (ie realistic, huge disproportionalities, etc)
The textures and such should be very realistic while the units should have huge proportions so that units can be distinguished easily. The in-engine cut-scenes should be have more normal proportions.

* Do you feel that SCII's art is more like SC or WCIII?
It is far more detailed than WC3 but it still has some WC3 styles such as the cliffs. There needs to be more grit to the Terran as well as more detail in the protoss models. The feet still look very WC3ish.

* How much cartooniness is necessary in the SC universe?
There needs to be some so that you can distinguish the units apart though it shouldn't be quite as much as WC3.

* How should the switch to 3d affect this universe's art?
There should be far better shadowing and particle effects for weapons and such though the art style should try to mimic the original starcraft as much as possible while still making it look up to date.


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Old 12-12-2007
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Originally Posted by XBSHX View Post
The Terran faction as a whole looks rather plasticy. All units and buildings should have a layer of rust and grit much like the original.
Are you able to provide a link to any StarCraft screenshots of actual units or buildings (as opposed to doodads) where grit/rust is evident? They all look pretty clean to me.
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Old 12-12-2007
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Community Questions for Fans:

* Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
Absolutely stunning. I love what I see. Keep up the good work.

* How does the Terran faction look visually?
Very good, except for the Nomad and Ghost. I think the Ghost looks to cartoon-y at the moment with his white body suit and his gun that is just enormous. And I just hate the overall look of the Nomad.

* How does the Protoss faction look visually?
Better than the Terran. I see nothing wrong with it.

* Additional Feedback you would like to give:
Keep up the good work? I don't know...


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Old 12-12-2007
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* Do you like the new look of the landscapes?


Very much - Blown away by many of the tilesets since the unveiling of the game. There are tilesets I like better than others, but that was true for the original for me as well.

* How does the Terran faction look visually?

Have to agree with many here (probably overstated so far) that the gritter look for the Terrans that has been suggested would be best; a really great answer to the sleek pollished look of the Protoss and the "gooier" biological look of the Zerg.

* How does the Protoss faction look visually?

Zero complaints - Although, the Phoenix is starting to look more like a Tiffany lamp all the time. I actually liked the look of the Scout - possible to just move the Phoenix abilities to it.

What overall theme do you think fits the SC universe best? (ie realistic, huge disproportionalities, etc)

- Realistic


Do you feel that SCII's art is more like SC or WCIII?

- I feel the new look is pretty unique - neither.

How much cartooniness is necessary in the SC universe?

- None for me.

Do you like SCII's art style?

- So far, very much

as an aside, does anyone have any screenshots of this 'Escort Ship' the Warp Ray was supposedly changed to?

Thanks


Last edited by caliban113; 12-12-2007 at 05:32 PM. Reason: computer crash
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Old 12-12-2007
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Originally Posted by Waves View Post
Are you able to provide a link to any StarCraft screenshots of actual units or buildings (as opposed to doodads) where grit/rust is evident? They all look pretty clean to me.
Just go play starcraft, you'll see what I mean. The units don't look shiny and new like they do in sc2. The marines have shiny new paint compared to the sc1 marines that look like they have already been through a battle. The sc2 Terran look more plasticy than in sc. They are shiny in sc but its more of a metallic shine than it is in sc2.


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Old 12-12-2007
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I think overall Starcraft's looking too much like a shiny new car commercial and it's lacking a lot of the dirt and grit that made SC look more 'real'. The cartoony proportions are also a slight bother, because it is still too similar to Warcraft. Even though they want the units too read better, they have to get things dirtied up and looking more realistic. Break up the specular highlights on the marine, desaturate the colors and take off all that silly team coloring on the Protoss. The world really looks too saturated. IMO the units should be much less colorful so the effects stand out; not have everything super bright and colorful like right now.

Just my two cents.
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Old 12-12-2007
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Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
-Yes. It's pretty obvious that some have had more work put into them than others. The space platform terrain, for example, looks finished as is; so does jungle-world. But the ice terrain could use a few touch-ups. I think it would help tremendously if cliff edges were sharper and less rounded. This is the roundness that people usually associate with 3d cartooniness and WarCraft 3.

How does the Terran faction look visually?
-Very Terrany. Few complaints here. It would be nice to see a little less team color and a little more rusty metal standard colors. Prime candidates include the Thor and some of the structures. It would help if the textures on buildings were given a little more depth; if it's just gray, that's no better than it being just purple. It needs to look a little worn, a little grimy. Patches here and there, so it doesn't look like all shiny plates of one color intermixed with another.

http://www.sc2blog.com/wp-content/up.../07/thor-2.jpg

That screenshot is a good example. The Supply Depot looks incredibly shiny, even the plating on the ground which should actually be more reflective of units coming in / walking around on it so it should look worn, whereas it actually looks brand spankin' new. The Thor looks like a toy. I love the model, but I think there's just a bit too much color on him that's overbearing, and it's really unimmersive, reminds us that we're playing a game and not seeing an actual war unfold. For contrast, the Marines have a nice mix of color and look great in that screenshot, very un-toyish.

How does the Protoss faction look visually?
-I have a few small complaints, but nothing serious. The Zealot's run animation could use to be buffed up to make him look less stealthy and more like the berserker warrior he is. The Stalker... well, you guys know the story. A bit of a let-down given the amazing concept art. Dark Templar's attack animations look quite goofy; the double-sided weapons are impractical as is, but if they're there, at least they ought to be used in the animations somehow. As it is they're just there looking unrealistic and not even being used. Either remove the double-blades or put them to some use, because either of those would be better than having them and not using them. The only other thing that could really be complained about is the (over)use of team color in Protoss lasers and crystals. Honestly, I'm not so convinced as some other people that it's a bad idea or good idea, but it would be nice if we had some screenshots of the Protoss looking the same as they do now but with SC1-esque team color; so Pylons and Zealots' blades and all that stuff would still be blue. Just to compare. I think that would definitely help if people could see why we've seen this change, or which way is really better.

Addition: I'd like to suggest, while I've got this spot-light, that the Twilight Archon's shields become a central part of its animation. This opportunity was missed in SC1, but it's not too late now. What are shields? Psionic energy around a unit. What is that giant ball floating around the Archon's body? Psionic energy. So why does the Archon get a separate shield, when all the shield he needs is already around him? Make the giant swirly ball of energy flare up and dance around to deflect enemy attacks without adding the standard shield, which seems redundant given the very point of the Archon is to be a swirly ball of psionic energy. He is a giant walking shield, and his defending animations should reflect that. I think if they do the unit will get a lot more personality and it'll make for some wicked cool effects.

What overall theme do you think fits the SC universe best? (ie realistic, huge disproportionalities, etc)?
-I think the visual theme is a very interesting combination of dark and gritty as well as cartoony and exaggerated. But you have to have both. The Colossus is a great example of how this transferred over from SC1 to SC2 - it's totally fitting with Protoss color scheme, it's this evil robot of death, but at the same time it has an absolutely preposterous design that is totally alien and seemingly impractical. Its design accentuates its robotic and alien qualities, but it's not so cartoony that it ruins immersion. As opposed to the Thor which is cartoony and exaggerated in a great way as the Terran hulking piece of metal o' doom, but unfortunately the colors and textures are cartoony as well, so you end up with something that looks like a little plastic toy.

Do you feel that SCII's art is more like SC or WCIII?

-I think the 2-d art has transferred over VERY well in most cases, but it would be nice to see some Zerg concept art here, because they've got the most to lose at this point. I think the 3-d art looks like a combination of both, and it's a lie to say it doesn't lean in the direction of WCIII, but I think that was absolutely unavoidable. You can't make a 3d game look like a 2d game, so obviously SC2 and WC3 will have visual similarities. But some things - like many Protoss units, some Terran ones, Overlord - have a very distinctly StarCraft feel to them that the WCIII visual influence cannot and does not change.

How much cartooniness is necessary in the SC universe?
-A lot. Not just visually, but audio cartooniness, it's all there. That's why a lot of people love the game, they just don't realize it. Everything is very exaggerated. Games don't usually have the time to be very subtle about things, especially an RTS. It has to be blunt and to the point. If you want the Terrans to be all these qualities (some are loyal, others are whiny, some are experienced, others are cocky, etc) you have to show it up front. Otherwise you end up with games where units don't have individual personalities. And a part of that is obviously in the lines units deliver, like the Ghost's special ops training and ominous voice, or the Science Vessel's nerdy dude, or the voices, but a lot of it has to do with visual stuff. Stuff like the Thor's obvious exaggerated size and his dozen of guns, or the Colossus' spindly legs, these add to the units' personalities. But the texture-work has to be there to place it back firmly in reality and keep the game visually immersive.

How should the switch to 3d affect this universe's art?
-Time should go into ensuring that texture-work on units and buildings doesn't look like shiny recently painted bubbles or plastic, it should look like metal surfaces. This is more important for Terrans than other races. It's hard to judge the Zerg because we haven't seen much of them yet, so we don't really know what a natural transfer of Zerg from SC1 to SC2 looks like on the big scale. It should affect the universe's 2d art in that now the units can look more complex without becoming hard to tell apart (like most did anyway in SC1). This is really obvious in the design of some units like the Banshee, which is very detailed and looks outstanding. So unit designs should reflect this ability to portray more complex visuals, so the art should be more ambitious. Not to overdo it "just because we can," but take advantage of these freedoms.

Sincerely hope that helps.

Last edited by pureWasted; 12-13-2007 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 12-12-2007
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Originally Posted by XBSHX View Post
Just go play starcraft, you'll see what I mean
I asked for a screenshot because I don't see what you mean when I play StarCraft. You specifically mention rust, yet there are no Terran buildings or units that have rust on them. The only sign of "grit" is the scorch-marks on the landing pad area on top of the Starport. All the other Terran units look clean and new. Some of them are shiny, some of them are not.

If you want to argue the Terrans should be dirty and rusty, then that's fine. There's no need to pretend it was that way in StarCraft 1, though. It just wasn't.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but StarCraft 2 has dynamic lighting. This means that how shiny a unit looks depends on the angle you're looking at it, and it also depends on the lighting present on that particular map. Watch the Terran Gameplay Video to get a real sense of how the Terran units look.

The Marines do look sort of plastic-like, but they looked even more plastic in StarCraft 1. They're just little blobs of colour. On the other hand, the shiny plates on the regular guns of the Thor look more like genuine metal than anything seen in StarCraft 1.

Last edited by Waves; 12-12-2007 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 12-12-2007
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warp rays changed to escort ships? when did this happen? Karune nor cavez mentioned anything about this. I want to see a picture of this so called "escort ship"


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Old 12-12-2007
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Do you like the new look of the landscapes?
To an extent. Thus far, they seem faithful in conveying the same vibe that their predecessors did. However, there are still problems. Most often cited is the issue with the cliffs; they're far too rounded. The edges need to be sharper and more defined, and, where applicable, erosion needs to be more naturally distributed (which is to say, unevenly).

Also, a notable issue that has come up on some of the maps is the matter of color interfering with unit recognition. This Thread on the Battle.net forums sums up the issue nicely, and even goes as far as to say how the problem can be corrected.

Quote
How does the Terran faction look visually?
On the whole, the Terrans look much like their two-dimensional counterparts. However, there are a number of gripes for a great deal of the models that need to be addressed:

Buildings: Some of the buildings still look like they're made by PlaySchool or Mattel, which makes them somewhat out-of place compared to the more realistic ones. In this screenshot, for example, the Barracks and the Shadow Ops look nice and well-made, but the Refinery and Command Center (and, to a lesser extent, the Factory and the add-ons) look too new and undetailed. More grit, grime, and rust is needed to round these structures out. Wear and tear, as it were. And simply changing the color of the vertices won't cut it; you need to actually add some detail.

Thor: Much like the buildings, it suffers from the lack of apparent use that the Terrans are famous for. Its far too shiny, and it looks more like a toy than a weapon of terror. It needs to look like it means business.

SCV: Two things: ditch the drill-bit, and make the jets red again.

The drill-bit just looks silly, especially when its repairing something. The fusion cutter, at least, was ambiguous enough that we could assume that it could function as both a cutting and a welding torch. And, despite being colored Protoss-blue, the graphic was different enough that it could be easily distinguished.

The jump jets on the back are both way too glowy, and, oddly, very blue where everything else fire-related is quite orange-red. Terran stuff is supposed to be notoriously inefficient, giving off more heat than light (or lift, for that matter), so why make a complete reversal of a design philosophy on something as lowly as the Space Construction Vehicle? If you're worried that it might look too much like the Reaper's jet-pack, then make the SCV's flame more red, or more orange, so that it can be differentiated.

Marine: Not much complaint here. The bayonet is smaller now, which is good, but it would still be appreciated if it was removed entirely if it doesn't serve any purpose other than just being there.

Banshee: The model is great, but is suffers from a lack of team identification markings. Adding a few, small colored patched around the rotors (read: NOT the whole thing, just part-way around) would be nice.

Cobra: I like the design, regardless of what others might say. Its both sleek and functional; all it needs is a little wear to make it look more Terran-esqe.

Viking: The concept art was spot-on, but the in-game model seems to have differentiated from the original blueprints for the worse. On paper it looked functional and menacing, in-game it just looks clumsy. See what you can do to bring it more in-line with the original concept.

Battlecruiser: I don't know why, really, but there's just something about the new model that makes it look smaller than it should be. Perhaps the new design is just a little bit too busy, with various bits sticking out here and there at exaggerated positions. If you made it look a little more formal, like the command ship its supposed to be, that might help.

Quote
How does the Protoss faction look visually?
Thus far? Very nice. All the Protoss models are very shiny new-looking, which is good for their paradigm. Nevertheless, there are some irks about some matters:

Team Colors: Psi blades, pylons, and the like should not need to be team colored. If they detract from a model's identifyability, then perhaps you need to tone down the glow, or up the amount of color on the model itself. If you absolutely insist, then at least try to have the player's color "pulse" through periodically, instead of displaying it 24/7.

Zealots: Some people have complained about this, so I'll give it some mention. The current Zealot, although it looks stellar in design, is animated as such so that it looks like a prancing ninja. We though that the Dark Templar were the ninjas? And more than that, the attack is so slow it looks, visually, weak. If there is more than one attack animation then this doesn't matter so much, but as it stands it doesn't hold up well.

Stalkers: The current model will do, but the concept art looked better. Other than that, no real complaints.

Dark Templar: Heavy armor and unwieldily warp-scythes are not befitting of a unit that is supposed to be an assassin. If anything, that sort of armor should belong to the the Zealots. If you absolutely insist on a two-handed weapon, then use something more subtle, like a staff.

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What overall theme do you think fits the SC universe best? (i.e. realistic, huge disproportionalities, etc)
Semi-realistic. Where applicable, it is appropriate over-exaggerate things, but a unit looks a whole lot less menacing when is doesn't look very believable. So, at the very least, the ilusion of reality needs to be maintained, even in a universe with battling aliens and space marines.

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Do you feel that SCII's art is more like SC or WCIII?
You know, the art honestly tries to look like the SC1 sprites, but a lot of the time, it ends up looking like WCIII's lower-polygon models.

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How much cartooniness is necessary in the SC universe?
Some is required, in order to suspend disbelief. However, the larger the unit gets, the more noticeable it is, and, therefore, a lot less 'cartooniness' is permissible. In a battle, people are going to be paying more attention to a Thor or a Battlecruiser than a lowly Marine.

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How should the switch to 3d affect this universe's art?
If all goes well, it should get more detailed than before, instead of less so.

Quote
Do you like SCII's art style?
So far, its a bit of a mixed bag. Some of it I've absolutely fallen in love with, but at other time's I'm far from certain I actually like a new model.


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Old 12-12-2007
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United States caliban113
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warp rays changed to escort ships? when did this happen? Karune nor cavez mentioned anything about this. I want to see a picture of this so called "escort ship"
Karune mentions it in the opening of the Dec discussion - first I heard of it too
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Old 12-12-2007
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The Marines do look sort of plastic-like, but they looked even more plastic in StarCraft 1. They're just little blobs of colour. On the other hand, the shiny plates on the regular guns of the Thor look more like genuine metal than anything seen in StarCraft 1.
Agreed. The genuine metal on the Thor really looks the part. It's a shame that it's otherwise oversaturated by artificial colors like purple or pink or green or whatever. I'd like to see the unit with the team color being occasional as opposed to overbearing; I think it could look a lot more menacing and violent that way, to be honest.
pureWasted is offline
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