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Old 07-16-2006
 
#1
United States Blackspynx
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Default Self-Segregation, Cultures, & the Idea of Being "Different"

My thoughts on this began after a rather heated conversation with a friend that started with discussing foreign films. Now, my friend explained that he hated subtitles (and dubs) and backed this up with the opinion that if you're going to market a movie in America, speak english (the original actors themselves).

He completely disregarded the fact that these movies were made specifically for their country's enjoyment, and it's kind of a privilege for us to be able to watch them, and read a translation.

While it is a good idea to know english, especially if you're in the business world, that pissed me off. One of the joys of watching foreign movies is getting a glimpse into that country's culture, and if they spoke english instead of chinese, or hindi, it'd take away from the experience. I won't go on about how my friend is too much of a lazy bastard to bother reading and watching at the same time.

He went on to say that he's for making the world more efficient, where everybody can communicate easily, and thinks there should be a worldwide language standard. He also said that "specific culture" annoys him, and all it does is alienate that culture from everyone else. Isn't there a difference between flaunting your culture, and just being yourself?

Why should countries not have the right to speak their own language in their own movies, in their own country? My friend also said that all mass media and language should be under one blank, unified, nationless system, and if you differentiate yourself at all, it just makes people either annoyed or angry. True, it's in human nature to, in general, not like something that is different. But to me, this defies our ancestry and history.

If we constructed society in such a way that different is bad, we'd have to ban just about every holiday, consign to one way of doing things, and forget where we came from. Forget our history. Having pride in our culture, and ancestry will be banned. As my friend said, different is bad.

Of course, it's a known fact that many wars and conflicts have started over cultural differences, but that can fixed eventually, I believe. If we work hard enough, being chinese, being black, being white, won't be such a big issue any longer. Many are making it extremely hard for us to get anywhere though.

For example, on college campuses, there are "women" centers, "asian" centers, "black" centers. People are now so set on making their minority race or culture known, that they're segregating themselves. I may not have put that in the most appropriate and correct form, but there it is.

The above is really jumbled and I'm in kind of a sour mood, but what are your thoughts? Is it really so bad to have pride in your history, race, or culture? As I said to my friend many times, there is a difference between shoving your culture in everybody's face, and just being who you are.

I don't know, maybe I'm too ignorant, and have no idea what I'm talking about. =\
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
#2
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You're friend is an idiot and you don't know what you are talking about.

Nah you're friend is simply being an idiot and I agree with you, there is nothing wrong with being who you are. Though I am getting kind of sick and tired of hearing things like black pride! or seeing retarded things like a Chinese student association.

I have even contemplated making and wearing a white pride t-shirt to university. I decided not to do it because I don't go to university that often and the black students are a bit bigger.
 
 

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Old 07-16-2006
 
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The more diversity, the better. That's why we've come this far

The philosopher Spinoza once said "I've been trying not to laugh at human acts, not to deplore them or hate them, but to understand them" (badly translated by me)

If only everyone could think that way. Diversity is what makes us all so great! I want everyone to think different and to be different, because there is no progress to be made in constancy. If everyone has the same ideas, how's creativity going to come out?

We have to respect what people like to do, regardless of whether we like it or not. It's absolutely insane in my mind to criticize someone for doing something only because WE don't like it! I cringe everytime I hear someone say something like "that guy's an emo, what a faggot". If he likes acting one way, behaving one way, who the fuck is ANYONE to tell them they shouldn't do it? As long as someone's actions don't interfere with anyone's fundamental freedoms, condemning those actions is completely baseless and retrograde

Being different is what makes us be human
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
#4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
The more diversity, the better. That's why we've come this far

The philosopher Spinoza once said "I've been trying not to laugh at human acts, not to deplore them or hate them, but to understand them" (badly translated by me)

If only everyone could think that way. Diversity is what makes us all so great! I want everyone to think different and to be different, because there is no progress to be made in constancy. If everyone has the same ideas, how's creativity going to come out?

We have to respect what people like to do, regardless of whether we like it or not. It's absolutely insane in my mind to criticize someone for doing something only because WE don't like it! I cringe everytime I hear someone say something like "that guy's an emo, what a faggot". If he likes acting one way, behaving one way, who the fuck is ANYONE to tell them they shouldn't do it? As long as someone's actions don't interfere with anyone's fundamental freedoms, condemning those actions is completely baseless and retrograde

Being different is what makes us be human
Exactly. Being around people and [Insert something foreign Here] helps us better understand the different cultures that are out there.

Your friend is stupid Spynx becuase he fails to understand that the movie was made in [Insert wherever the hell it was from] and that's how the actors were meant to speak. He doesn't seem to realize that there are other cultures out there besides the American culture that is too lazy to read and watch at the same time.

Diversity kicks ass.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
#5
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Quote:
Now, my friend explained that he hated subtitles (and dubs) and backed this up with the opinion that if you're going to market a movie in America, speak english (the original actors themselves).
Is he also the kind that bitches about imported foreign films that are dubbed in English as well because they can't bear to read during a movie?

Quote:
One of the joys of watching foreign movies is getting a glimpse into that country's culture, and if they spoke english instead of chinese, or hindi, it'd take away from the experience.
No, not really. There shouldn't be any dramatic difference in the culture you experience unless you're attempting to learn the language spoken in that country. The only problem I see with dubbed films is that the mouth moves a bit funny. That's about all. You get your experience from the cinematic depictions of the culture and the content of the dialogue, not the language it's spoken in.

Quote:
He went on to say that he's for making the world more efficient, where everybody can communicate easily, and thinks there should be a worldwide language standard. He also said that "specific culture" annoys him, and all it does is alienate that culture from everyone else. Isn't there a difference between flaunting your culture, and just being yourself?
Let's just conclude that your friend is a xenophobic bigot, it's best to ignore anything coming out of his mouth about multiculturalism.

Quote:
Why should countries not have the right to speak their own language in their own movies, in their own country?
Because some people get uneasy with the fact that there are things out there that they have no experience whatsoever of.

Quote:
If we constructed society in such a way that different is bad, we'd have to ban just about every holiday, consign to one way of doing things, and forget where we came from. Forget our history. Having pride in our culture, and ancestry will be banned. As my friend said, different is bad.
The problem here is what current culture are you going to model your new collective society's culture after? I'm guessing the bloke wants it to be American, never mind that Americans don't even speak proper English.

Quote:
Of course, it's a known fact that many wars and conflicts have started over cultural differences, but that can fixed eventually, I believe. If we work hard enough, being chinese, being black, being white, won't be such a big issue any longer. Many are making it extremely hard for us to get anywhere though.
Wars get fought over all kinds of reasons. The Trojan War wasn't fought over a cultural difference; it was fought over a woman. And I love the way you clump all the Asian cultures into one ethnicity group and just call them "Chinese".

Quote:
For example, on college campuses, there are "women" centers, "asian" centers, "black" centers.
I don't know about the other centres but if you've ever moved to a brand new spanking country with a different language, chances are you're going to need help with the new culture that you face and where else better to get it than people of your own race?

Quote:
People are now so set on making their minority race or culture known, that they're segregating themselves.
As an Asian bloke who constantly hangs out with white kids, I applauded them. At least they won't get a hundred racist jokes thrown at them every fucking time the whites decide they need someone to make fun of.

Quote:
Is it really so bad to have pride in your history, race, or culture?
If you're not an idiot, then it would be yes.

Quote:
Though I am getting kind of sick and tired of hearing things like black pride! or seeing retarded things like a Chinese student association.
And what is so retarded about a Chinese student association?

Quote:
I have even contemplated making and wearing a white pride t-shirt to university. I decided not to do it because I don't go to university that often and the black students are a bit bigger.
Yes mate, because you white people sooo need help from oppression and subtle stereotyping in the god damn US of A.

I bet you that if the Yanks go off to Asia or non-English speaking European countries, chances are they're going to be in a group and would happily welcome any other Yanks they see. That and they most definitely would converse publicly in English. Then they'd get back to the US and start whinging about how the fucking Asians won't stop going "Ching chong," or why the Mexicans wouldn't stop speaking in bloody Spanish.

It's a fucking enigma, ey?
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
#6
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diversity is entirely different than self-segregation

theo the problem with a Chinese student association is that they encourage self-segregation. if you look around my campus all the asians hang out with each other, there is not really any intermixing of races. what you want is people of different races meeting each other, and not just hanging out with others of their same race.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
#7
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Hah, Theo and Pizza both completely missed the point of this thread.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
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theo the problem with a Chinese student association is that they encourage self-segregation. if you look around my campus all the asians hang out with each other, there is not really any intermixing of races. what you want is people of different races meeting each other, and not just hanging out with others of their same race.
Yes, what happens when a Chinese kid hangs out with white people? You want to know? They most likely get chastised and insulted. "Do you eat dogs?" "All Asians have small cocks." "Ching chong ching." "Fucking gook." "You must know martial arts and ace maths and science tests." "You can't be good at sports, you're a fucking Asian." "Hey, did you come over on a boat?" "Are you friends with the Triads?"

As hard as I try to make friends with other ethnicities, that's usually what it ends up being. It's a wonder why I even fucking try to intergrate anymore.

Quote:
Hah, Theo and Pizza both completely missed the point of this thread.
Bite me Goldielocks.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
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Originally Posted by Theo
Bite me Goldielocks.
whoa, chill dude,

anyway sean i thought that the original topic of this thread was stupid. and that the answer to his questions was obviously that his friend is an idiot and he shouldnt be taken seriously. but the self-segregation in the title caught my eye because it is an issue i have opinions about, so i thought id reply to something theo said
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
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Originally Posted by Pizza
whoa, chill dude,
What? Sean does look like Goldielocks.

And yes, it is undisputed, the friend is a douche.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
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Your friend is a retard. Period.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3ngu!n
Your friend is a retard. Period.

I agree. Multiculturalism is good! It causes problems but so does the American 'melting pot.'

Case closed!
 

 

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Old 07-16-2006
 
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Multiculturalism as in the school of thought that sees second and third generation Australians cheering as Italy defeated the Socceroos in the World Cup? That sees Australians rock out to cheer the Greeks on at the start of the year?

Multiculturalism promotes feel-good nonsense at the expense of national identity and social cohesion. A work colleague of mine told me the other day about his grandmother that has been living in Australia since the 1960s yet doesn't speak enough English to hold a conversation.

What a wonderful ideology.
 
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Old 07-16-2006
 
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What does your firend's mother have to do with multiculturalism? That is a terrible example--period.

I will give you an example. I watched a documentary on Canada's CBC news about how multicuturalism is dying in Europe--more and more European countries like UK and Holland are adopting anti-immigration and assimilation policies.

Why? Because people want to 'preserve their culture' against those 'darn Muslims.' Tell me, why is change so bad? They say Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world--so if Muslims become majority in Canada? Do I want that? No. Do I fear it though? No. Change is good. And it is inevitable.

If another culture is swallowed up, then too bad. It's happened in the world before, like how Roman culture was absored with german and franco cultures to form mideval, early modern times Euro-culture. Perhaps, some day Western Christian values will have to accept and embrace Muslim values.
 

 

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Old 07-16-2006
 
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Originally Posted by Masterchief
What does your firend's mother have to do with multiculturalism? That is a terrible example--period.
No, it's an excellent example. That's the new way of things. Rather than adapt and assimilate into the culture you have moved into, you don't even learn to speak English. If you want to move to a country, you aren't doing so just to sit there with other immigrants from your own country and not mix with anyone else.

Quote:
I will give you an example. I watched a documentary on Canada's CBC news about how multicuturalism is dying in Europe--more and more European countries like UK and Holland are adopting anti-immigration and assimilation policies.
Not surprising that the Netherlands and the UK are doing so. Hear about what happened to Theo van Gogh? Special Branch in the UK are also getting a bit nervous about radical preachers that live in Britain while at the same time calling for its destruction.

The riots that broke out in the cités HLM across the French Republic don't really help European views about multiculturalism either. They are seeing radical Islam as fundamentally incompatible with European values.

Quote:
Why? Because people want to 'preserve their culture' against those 'darn Muslims.' Tell me, why is change so bad? They say Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world--so if Muslims become majority in Canada? Do I want that? No. Do I fear it though? No. Change is good. And it is inevitable.
Change is not always good. I'm certainly in no hurry to throw away my history just to cater for minorities. By catering I mean primary schools no longer having activities to do with Easter or Christman. Local councils ban the use of red and green tinsel in the fear of offending minority groups.

I don't want the entire identity of Australia to change, I want the newest Australians to change their identity to Australian.
 
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