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Old 02-04-2009
 
#16
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The international economic order as it currently exists is able to only because of US military hegemony. Take away that unipolar system and nations once again have to attend to their own security interests, and activity becomes too regional for a globalized economy to be sustainable. As such, US military hegemony will remain in place for the foreseeable future because its existence is in the interest of nearly every nation of Earth. Nations are only able to oppose that hegemony to whatever degree (Russia, China, Iran) insofar as they stand outside of that order. But as they become more and more integrated, seeking greater and greater wealth and power for themselves, the more continued US hegemony comes to be in their interests. Other "great nations", like Russia and China, may join as regional powers, but the unique capacity of the US navy for policing the world's oceans and providing America with truly global power projection capability will keep America the only truly global hegemon.


 

Last edited by Ben; 02-04-2009 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 02-04-2009
 
#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I think the idea of a Super Power nation will be archaic and outdated within 50 years. I honestly foresee the USA imploding on its own wealth and greed, and no single nation will rise as the new world power. Right now the US dominates the earth, and really the only other country that even comes close is China.

I dont think China will become a "super power" because it's just too unstable an environment. They don't have the right mentality to be one, and really their industrial revolution won't last much longer. Once the rest of the globe slows down, their exports will also slow down and eventually China will be sitting in a pile of their own shit with no one to buy it.

In short i think the entire concept of a Super Power nation will soon become extinct. I predict the USA will fall within 30 years.
The USA won't fall, we just won't be the sole hyperpower in the world. I think Chinas main advantage is that they will learn from our mistakes, and instead of trying to police the world or mire themselves all across the world they will simply concentrate on what is in Chinas best interests. They are comfortable with being a regional power, and correctly percieve that there is no real benefit to being a world police or involving themselves in affairs that do not benefit or concern them.

Honestly I don't think China will ever replace the United States current role, and it is to the benefit of the Chinese people that they do not. Anyone who does try to do what we did is sure to fail, just like we did. It's an unattainable goal, the world is too big to be dominated by one nation. Eventually this role will bankrupt any nation which attempts to fill it. America is the first, last, and only hyperpower that ever will have existed. We've tried this experiment, and it worked for a little while, but like all great things it's coming to an end.

I don't think the United States will ever be a 3rd world country, indeed it will probably always be the strongest country for the next century or two. It just won't be the hyperpower that we are now. The United States has reached the apex of it's golden age, much like Britain did before us. Now is Britain a 3rd world country? No, it's pretty obvious that Brits are living better now than they were when the Crown dominated the globe thanks to improvements in technology and wealth creation.

Is it a bad thing? Not necessarily, nobody could argue that life has significantly improved for the British even though they are not the worlds only superpower.

The only difference is that nobody will ever replace Americas role, it will just remain unfilled for the rest of time. No matter how strong any nation or group of nations become they will never be able to extend their influence beyond Americas sphere of influence (Americas).

Actually I think America will benefit from renouncing it's role as world police and focusing on how our foreign policy will help America, and not the world. This is what China is doing and it works. It's a sensible foreign policy, and a patriotic one too.
 
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Old 02-04-2009
 
#18
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Old 02-04-2009
 
#19
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Look at our economy, do I really have to explain why our current system is unsustainable?

You are commiting the broken window fallacy. Was there really a net benefit to "victory" in Iraq? The costs certainly outweighed whatever "benefit" we recieved from establishing a Democratic government in Iraq, that much can't be argued. In the end, the American people were the true losers of this war, even if the military won (we don't know that yet, lets wait until our troops are gone before we sound the trumpets of victory).

Our country is bankrupt, there is no other way to look at it. We have accumulated more debt and future obligations than the GDP of the entire world combined. It's simply not feasible for us to continue like this. Something has to go, and I have a feeling that Americans will choose "world police" before free handouts like Social Security, Free Health Care, etc. The military will of course be the first to suffer budget cuts in times of economic crisis because it's the least necessary.
 
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Old 02-04-2009
 
#20
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I actualy agree with DE on that point. We replaced one muslim shithole with another, the only thing that changed was the system of government. Sure we've made progress against Al Qaeda in Iraq and captured numerous foreign fighters, but the bulk of our expenses revolved around rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure and trying to construct a "democracy". Epic fail and money sent down the drain. It would've been better spent for invasions in Somalia and Sudan.
 
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Old 02-04-2009
 
#21
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To be honest, i dont think it was America's business to establish democracy over there. It's their country's problem, not (y)ours.

Quote:
I don't think the United States will ever be a 3rd world country, indeed it will probably always be the strongest country for the next century or two. It just won't be the hyperpower that we are now. The United States has reached the apex of it's golden age, much like Britain did before us. Now is Britain a 3rd world country? No, it's pretty obvious that Brits are living better now than they were when the Crown dominated the globe thanks to improvements in technology and wealth creation.
I never meant that the USA would become a 3rd world country. Quite frankly barring some massive implosion and civil war i dont think the US will ever be a 3rd world country. I just think that really tough times are coming, possibly to the point of the early 1930s. When you have a situation like the US, in that 5% of the world's population consumed about 1/3rd of the resources that were consumed last year, you've got a serious problem on your hands--especially in the midst of a recession that doesn't appear to be ending until at least 2010. In Canada alone 325,000 jobs are expected to be cut, so one can only wonder how bad it's gonna get for the USA.
 

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Old 02-05-2009
 
#22
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post

When you have a situation like the US, in that 5% of the world's population consumed about 1/3rd of the resources that were consumed last year, you've got a serious problem on your hands--especially in the midst of a recession that doesn't appear to be ending until at least 2010.
I'm sorry, but what exactly is wrong with 5% of the world's population consuming over 30% of the resources? Are you saying we ought to even it out and give 3rd world countries a chance? Fuck that. I say 20% of the world's population should exploit the rest of the 80% and try to at least maintain a decent way of life. 5% of worlds population using 5% of resources isn't something I look forward to, and sounds a lot like socialism.
 
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Old 02-05-2009
 
#23
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

To bring some specificity to this discussion, I'll take a headline from recent news.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7868586.stm

The hand of Russia is behind this. Some old KGB dogs still hurt from the sound thumping Charlie Wilson gave them are trying to get their revenge nearly 30 years later. This was the brand of foreign policy issues I had been expecting for the future, albeit not so soon.

Russia doesn't know what they are getting into. They wanted to make a fuss over a missile defense system intended as a fallback should the volatile governments in the Middle East actually degrade enough to consider launching heavy ordinance, so they are trying to the start The Game once more. Even with our economy in turmoil, they cannot match the fungible leverage the United States possesses.

What are they thinking?
 
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Old 02-05-2009
 
#24
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
To bring some specificity to this discussion, I'll take a headline from recent news.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7868586.stm

The hand of Russia is behind this. Some old KGB dogs still hurt from the sound thumping Charlie Wilson gave them are trying to get their revenge nearly 30 years later. This was the brand of foreign policy issues I had been expecting for the future, albeit not so soon.

Russia doesn't know what they are getting into. They wanted to make a fuss over a missile defense system intended as a fallback should the volatile governments in the Middle East actually degrade enough to consider launching heavy ordinance, so they are trying to the start The Game once more. Even with our economy in turmoil, they cannot match the fungible leverage the United States possesses.

What are they thinking?
That is not what the missile defense shield was intended for.
 
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Old 02-05-2009
 
#25
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

People decrying China as a takeover for the US boggle my mind. China is so rife with corruption, bureaucracy, and human rights violation that the idea of war with them is laughable. Simply engaging their military enough to occupy it while arming domestic dissenters would be enough to embroil them in a civil war, or brutal insurrection. They lack the infrastructure and civilian support to engage in long-term warfare and support their police state simultaneously.

Conversely, the US has ridiculous infrastructure, technology, and building. We may be eventually surpassed, but I seriously doubt we will be anything but a major player for many lifetimes down the road.
 
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Old 02-05-2009
 
#26
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0teLVi0LeT View Post
I'm sorry, but what exactly is wrong with 5% of the world's population consuming over 30% of the resources? Are you saying we ought to even it out and give 3rd world countries a chance? Fuck that. I say 20% of the world's population should exploit the rest of the 80% and try to at least maintain a decent way of life. 5% of worlds population using 5% of resources isn't something I look forward to, and sounds a lot like socialism.
im getting pretty tired of how often you misconstrue what i say. It's a problem because it can't keep going on like this. As we've seen, a nation that indulges too much will reach a peak and then recede. Conventional economic theory assumes that the gross national product must continually grow, but technological abundance and indulgence both destroys the environment and the economy (Great Depression, Oil Crisis of the early 80s, right now). Having 5% of the world's population consuming more than 30% of the world's consumed resources leads to the other 95% struggling (well, yes and no) to divide up the other 68-69% which can lead to disproportionate global economies. When the controller struggles, the controlled also struggles. It's a cause and effect thing. The fact that North Americans spend $35 billion more than we earn is a testament to how much trouble we're potentially in. Since China holds the majority of (y)our debt, you should be feeling really lucky right now that 1) they're not asking for us to pay them back yet, and 2) they aren't demanding that you cut back on your spending and consuming. Really, China is in a position of strength right now--if they demanded all of their capital back, it would be a matter of months before we'd be plunged into a very serious depression.

I never suggested we should hand it all out equally. I dont know how you gathered that meaning from my post. I dont support socialism at all.
 

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Old 02-09-2009
 
#27
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

To address Mike again the intent of the Missile Defense Shield was to antagonize Russia, not to "protect" us from "rogue states."
 
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Old 02-09-2009
 
#28
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

Where are you getting that from?

I specifically recall speeches and policy stating that the missile defense system was intended as a ward against states such as Iran.
 
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Old 02-09-2009
 
#29
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

I specifically recall speeches and policy stating that the Iraq war was intended as a preemptive strike against Iraq whose weapons of mass destruction and mobile chemical weapons labs posed a clear and imminent threat to the US.
 
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Old 02-09-2009
 
#30
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Default Re: A topic not related to Islam, God, or the American Presidency

I fail to see what the US would have to gain by spending multiple billions of dollars on missiles to antagonize Russia, but that's just me. Carry on with the absolutely irrelevant topic of what the government's anthropomorphic motives are.
 
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