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Old 01-20-2009
 
#46
Canada izzy
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Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Actually you made the original assertion by saying my system would be inefficient. I take issue with your characterization which is completely unfounded. How could more government be more efficient than less government? You're the one mixing words here. My system is more efficient by definition, since there is inherently less government.
The entire thread you have been the one mixing words. That last sentence has 13 words, yet 4 errors.

You obviously do not know the definition of simple words such as: Since, Less, Government, Efficient, Definition, The.


Quote:
How could less government = more beauracracy? By definition this makes no sense whatsoever. My system is more efficient by definition since there would be less government.
How could adding more checks and balance = less government? By definition this makes no sense whatsoever. The current system is more efficient by definition since there is less government.

Quote:
You're taking one analogy and applying it where it doesn't fit. He's talking about cookies, I'm sorry that you weren't able to understand that but it's not really my fault.
You and I both know I wasn't talking about cookies and for you to pretend otherwise after giving the same answer you gave, is quite idiotic. The answer you gave has gone along with everything you have said in this thread. I just made a joke afterwards.

Quote:
The point was that we are making it harder for government to tax and spend money, this should have been an easy concept to understand for anyone with half a brain
I agree, in your own words,
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-- you were not such a person.
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Obviously I personally wouldn't be the one allowing the government access in this case, it would be the people and their elected representatives.
It is your system, how would whoever is in charge have this work? You are forgetting that we are left to assume that you are the one in charge here, because of the way you have been posting.

Quote:
Why? Because I don't make laws, remember? If I don't make laws then how could I be the one giving people access? Your inability to comprehend simple analogies leads us to believe that you are not intelligent to understand what we are talking about here.
It is so funny when you say things that should be posted at yourself.
 
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Old 01-20-2009
 
#47
United States The Hawaiian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy
How could adding more checks and balance = less government? By definition this makes no sense whatsoever. The current system is more efficient by definition since there is less government.
How could a check and balance against bigger government equal less government? That is a stupid question, and I don't feel compelled to answer it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy
You and I both know I wasn't talking about cookies and for you to pretend otherwise after giving the same answer you gave, is quite idiotic. The answer you gave has gone along with everything you have said in this thread. I just made a joke afterwards.
You're the one making silly analogies comparing the governments desire to tax and spend to a child wanting to take cookies which his father doesn't want him to have. I must admit, that is an interesting one, and does work, but my reply will be equally ridiculous. If the child represents the government then I would represent congress and the vault represents my system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy
It is your system, how would whoever is in charge have this work? You are forgetting that we are left to assume that you are the one in charge here, because of the way you have been posting.
That is an irrational assumption, because nothing I said could logically lead to that conclusion. In fact my system makes no mention of a single authoritarian making decisions, it has from the very beginning making the government more accountable. If you need money then raise a tax -- very simple concept. Do I raise taxes? No, I don't. Congress raises taxes. I assumed you knew that, but I guess it was irrational for me to assume that you were intelligent.
 
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Old 01-21-2009
 
#48
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Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Actually you made the original assertion by saying my system would be inefficient. I take issue with your characterization which is completely unfounded. How could more government be more efficient than less government? You're the one mixing words here. My system is more efficient by definition, since there is inherently less government.
You can take issue with whatever you want, it doesn't give you the power to arbitrarily arrest words in the dictionary.
Quote:
How could less government = more beauracracy? By definition this makes no sense whatsoever. My system is more efficient by definition since there would be less government.
You are wading in amphiboly. If you are going to use the phrase "Big Government" as a pejorative in commentary about government efficiency, that's fine. Saying things like "less government" does not carry the same pejorative connotation. "Less government" means different things to different people, where an economist would see it as less government interference in business and a socialist would see it as a reduction of spending on public welfare.
Quote:
The point was that we are making it harder for government to tax and spend money, this should have been an easy concept to understand for anyone with half a brain -- you were not such a person. Obviously I personally wouldn't be the one allowing the government access in this case, it would be the people and their elected representatives. Why? Because I don't make laws, remember? If I don't make laws then how could I be the one giving people access? Your inability to comprehend simple analogies leads us to believe that you are not intelligent to understand what we are talking about here.
I note you ignore both my questions for yet another trip down the yellow brick road.
 
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Old 01-21-2009
 
#49
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
You can take issue with whatever you want, it doesn't give you the power to arbitrarily arrest words in the dictionary.
Nor does it give you the power to completely change the meaning of a word, or incorrectly use a word where it would not be appropriate. My system is not "less efficient" than the current system, it is more efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ga
You are wading in amphiboly. If you are going to use the phrase "Big Government" as a pejorative in commentary about government efficiency, that's fine. Saying things like "less government" does not carry the same pejorative connotation. "Less government" means different things to different people, where an economist would see it as less government interference in business and a socialist would see it as a reduction of spending on public welfare.
They are on in the same by the way, socialism is interefering in the economy. Anyways, less government period.

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Originally Posted by ga
I note you ignore both my questions for yet another trip down the yellow brick road.
Both of your questions have been answered already. "Congress" and "Congress." Stop lying.
 
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Old 01-21-2009
 
#50
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Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Both of your questions have been answered already. "Congress" and "Congress." Stop lying.
If only I could. See, I'm taking issue with your statement that all of this power and these organizations should be abolished in favor of consolidating all the power to what you're now calling "Congress". Congress does not possess absolute power over our funding and is most certainly not the same organization that you are now labeling it as. Congress acts as one organization in a system of checks and balances. It is not this hellish, bloated power hog that you are making. Not to mention that consolidating executive decision has been historically an act of dictators for purposes of manipulation.

I am not entirely sure how you plan on using police to arrest individuals responsible for powers of funding, regardless. If the police resist your absolute rule, you can simply manipulate their funding. It would be a matter of seconds before they got some slob in there that knows how to play ball. You are simply suggesting a state identical to a police state save the "good-naturedness of man" standing between thought and action. And you are correct, if you are going to refer to yourself as Congress in that analogy, the word "despotism" would be correctly referred to as "oligarchy".
 
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Old 01-21-2009
 
#51
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
If only I could. See, I'm taking issue with your statement that all of this power and these organizations should be abolished in favor of consolidating all the power to what you're now calling "Congress".
Which specific "power and organizations" are you referring to? Is there some other organization or power that raises taxes that I'm not aware of?

Sorry if I must clarify one more time, but the system has not once changed the people who are collecting taxes, it just changes the way they do it. Nothing about my system could be interpreted the way you took it. People like Ben understood that, why didn't you I wonder? Local governments still raise taxes, it's just that they have to label their taxes. Why is this so hard to understand?

Not saying you are slow or anything, but perhaps being fecitious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive
Congress does not possess absolute power over our funding and is most certainly not the same organization that you are now labeling it as. Congress acts as one organization in a system of checks and balances. It is not this hellish, bloated power hog that you are making. Not to mention that consolidating executive decision has been historically an act of dictators for purposes of manipulation.
Oh right, like parliamentary systems were created for dictators right? I don't think so. Noboyd is "consolidating power." Congress already has the power to raise taxes and spend. Didn't you know that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ga
I am not entirely sure how you plan on using police to arrest individuals responsible for powers of funding, regardless. If the police resist your absolute rule, you can simply manipulate their funding. It would be a matter of seconds before they got some slob in there that knows how to play ball. You are simply suggesting a state identical to a police state save the "good-naturedness of man" standing between thought and action. And you are correct, if you are going to refer to yourself as Congress in that analogy, the word "despotism" would be correctly referred to as "oligarchy".
Then by that logic you are saying we currently live under an oligarchy, since congress powers do not change one bit under my system. It simply makes it harder for congress to raise taxes not because of any specific, physical trait, but because people are less likely to put up with more taxes when they are so open and obvious (like what happened during the American revolution, which was pretty much about taxes and little more).

Since it would be impossible to spend money you don't have, there would be no need to arrest individuals who did this, since again, that wouldn't be possible.
 
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Old 01-21-2009
 
#52
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You're advocating a fundamental change to our system, by making it " as rough and jagged as possible" and destroying such organizing and responsible entities as FEMA. Then you're arguing that the powers would be "not changed one bit". Cognitive dissonance? The basis for this is that you are still calling "Congress" by the same name though it has radically different function and that people will somehow rise up and prevent Congressional leaders into doing shit they've been doing for decades. We're going to rise up by forcing politicians to make laws that would incriminate themselves.
 
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Old 01-21-2009
 
#53
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FEMA could still logically exist under my system, congress would just have to raise a tax to fund whatever new program they wanted to run. Congress function does not change at all, as they still have the power to raise and spend tax dollars. They are simply limited, in much the same way that the constitution limits power. Since my system would come about through a constitutional amendment, where is your argument?

How does congress have a "radically different function?" The function of congress remains the same. They still raise taxes and spend money, only now they have to label their taxes, OH THE HORROR! Tell me what specifically has changed about congress function in my system?
 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
#54
United States GenocideAlive
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Supposedly you would ideally want FEMA and other organizations like it utterly destroyed. Now you don't care if they exist and they can exist under this new system as well. Your ideals still remain untouched, though. It's a good thing you're consistent. I think it's time I just took you for the pointless troll for which everyone else takes you.
 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
#55
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My system has never changed, only your incorrect perception or (mis)understanding of it.
 
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