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Old 01-15-2009
 
#1
United States Chaos
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Default FISA Court Rules Warrantless Wiretapping is Constitutional

The FISA court ruled a year ago that the Protect America Act. passed in 2007, which gave Congressional approval to the president's warrantless wiretapping program, with some minor changes to the rules as they existed from 2001 to 2007, was legal. A telecommunications company appealed the ruling to the FISA appeals court. Both the FISA court and the FISA appeals court are "secret," as in, their sessions are held in private and their decisions not released to the public (the appeals court has only made 2 major rulings in 30 years, this is one of them. The FISA court is the one that approves or rejects specific cases of warrantless wiretapping after 72 hours of the wiretapping starting).

The appeals court essentially said the same thing I've been saying from the beginning, namely, that the Fourth Amendment does not apply to the gathering of foreign intelligence, even if the communications involve an American citizen at one end or the communications were captured by looking at them when they came through the US telecommunications system (much of the world's international phone calls and internet traffic goes through servers and relays in the US at some point).

The court, by its ruling, also made clear the other thing I've been saying all along: that communications between two Americans are protected by the provisions of the Fourth Amendment.

This ruling is a near-total vindication of the president's intelligence policies that have done quite a bit to keep us safe from al-Qaida terrorists. Commence the whining by DE in 5, 4, 3...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/wa...er=rss&emc=rss

Who wants to bet that President-elect Obama told the FISA appeals court judges that he could not adequately do his job as commander-in-chief if they ruled Bush's wiretapping program illegal? Obama has almost 100% adopted all of Bush's anti-terrorism policies. Hope and change for sure!
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#2
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Three fiddy for a wiretap, a buck and a half for a n*gger.
Happy hour, happy hour, happy hour is here.
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#3
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This is such old news, why are you making a thread now?
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
Three fiddy for a wiretap, a buck and a half for a n*gger.
Happy hour, happy hour, happy hour is here.
Oh wow... +rep.

And yeah, I'm in full support of Obama's foreign and anti-terror policies. I don't really see a need to mock his "hope and change" message. He outplayed his retarded far left supporters and they got the short end of the stick for the next 8 years.
 

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Old 01-15-2009
 
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Well at least we still have our freedom against quartering of soldiers in private homes.
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#6
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There's no need for that, probably never will be.
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#7
United States Chaos
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The freedom to talk to foreign powers for the purpose of harming the United States of America or foreign powers known to be seeking to harm the United States of America never existed.

Neither did the right to do those two things and not be listened in on by the NSA or DIA without a warrant.

So two questions JT, answer seriously and we might have a good discussion. One, what do you think a right is, in the context of law? And two, why do you think that an American citizen enjoys the protection of the Fourth Amendment when he is engaging in activity - namely, conspiracy with foreign powers - that is outside the purview of the Constitution? The Constitution doesn't say anything about how dealings with foreign powers should be handled, it only sets out that the President is the final authority for the planning and execution of foreign policy and the Congress controls the purse strings.

To be snarky for a moment, it seems to me that people like JT enjoy inventing rights out of thin air in order to manufacture for themselves a moral high ground in whatever political dispute they are participating in. Like, for example, the right of a non-citizen war criminal to have his trial go through civilian courts which would grant him the full protections of the Constitution despite it being clear, to me at least, that the legal rights of war criminals are the purview of the legal structure set up by the Geneva Conventions and the legal precedents set by the Nuremberg Trials. In other words, the US Constitution has no authority over war criminals.

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This is such old news, why are you making a thread now?
Because the story of the ruling came out today? It's a very important ruling and will have a huge effect on the way the government behaves for as long as it stands, which is likely to be a long time. This ruling is possibly even more important than the Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling this week (a wrong ruling I believe) that says the exclusionary rule cannot be applied to evidence obtained illegally as long as the reason it was obtained was a mistake made in good faith by the police.
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
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How does one distinguish between outgoing telecommunications that are damaging to the security of the United States and those that are simply private communications? Obviously, Johnny phoning in to a remote location in the mountains of Pakistan, or a direct wire to Tehran is something to raise one's eyebrows to, but a ruling as powerful as this scares me.

For something like this to work, every single person manning the system had better be a moral and ethical person, right down to the janitor cleaning the halls. This is a system no more immune to corruption and personal maneuvering than any other institution made by man.

On a personal note, Chaos, do you still post threads like these in the attempt to ring in folks you can proceed to shout at? :P
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
How does one distinguish between outgoing telecommunications that are damaging to the security of the United States and those that are simply private communications? Obviously, Johnny phoning in to a remote location in the mountains of Pakistan, or a direct wire to Tehran is something to raise one's eyebrows to, but a ruling as powerful as this scares me.

For something like this to work, every single person manning the system had better be a moral and ethical person, right down to the janitor cleaning the halls. This is a system no more immune to corruption and personal maneuvering than any other institution made by man.


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On a personal note, Chaos, do you still post threads like these in the attempt to ring in folks you can proceed to shout at? :P
He thrives on it. It's the only thing sustaining him since Obama won.
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#10
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Oh JT, now now. Must we really still utilize the old tactics?
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#11
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Oh JT, now now. Must we really still utilize the old tactics?
But they're so effective...and certainly easier than 5000 word essays filled with meaningless whargarbl.
 
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Old 01-15-2009
 
#12
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This ruling is possibly even more important than the Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling this week (a wrong ruling I believe) that says the exclusionary rule cannot be applied to evidence obtained illegally as long as the reason it was obtained was a mistake made in good faith by the police.
Yeah that is pretty fucked up, I didn't know about that. So basically "ignorance of the law is no excuse" applies to everybody except law enforcement, and takes qualified immunity one step further. This is going to keep a whole shitload more cases in court.
 

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Old 01-19-2009
 
#13
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IDK, that's one of the laws I see as going either way. I think the split ruling lends the system credit.

Americans bitch when an obvious louse gets off on a technicality, but then when they abolish the technicalities to nail the obvious louses, we complain that it can be abused. There's no winning. I go with the standard "Don't be stupid, don't go to jail" premise. In this particular scenario, though, perhaps something from the Holocaust era would be more appropriate.

They came first for the communists...
 
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Old 01-20-2009
 
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Wow, GA is dislaying more intelligence in this thread then I have ever seen him in all previous threads combined.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#15
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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
Three fiddy for a wiretap, a buck and a half for a n*gger.
Happy hour, happy hour, happy hour is here.
its things like this that make my lif whole, i love you Blizzforums, may you never grow a sense of morals or decency.
 
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I'll accept this when they start printing on the back of Bibles "Warning: This book has been linked to the murder and torture of millions along with a general lack of tolerance for others."
 

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