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Old 12-15-2008
 
#16
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Originally Posted by Norfindel View Post
Both the Scout and the Dragoon used anti-matter in his weapons. Anti-matter is much more destructive than a fusion reaction.
A one megaton matter/antimatter bomb is just as destructive as a one megaton nuclear device, the only difference IIRC is you don't need as much matter for the former and it's much 'cleaner' than the latter.

But why not, let's bring back more 'conventional' weapons for the Protoss. I even had an idea awhile back where the Tempest, rather than silly flying blades, fired antimatter missiles at ground targets, each missiles' AoE allowing it to bypass Dark Swarm. Not everything in the Protoss arsenal need be powered by magic to achieve the effect of a highly advanced civilization.
 

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Old 12-15-2008
 
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Originally Posted by lupino View Post
But why not, let's bring back more 'conventional' weapons for the Protoss. I even had an idea awhile back where the Tempest, rather than silly flying blades, fired antimatter missiles at ground targets, each missiles' AoE allowing it to bypass Dark Swarm. Not everything in the Protoss arsenal need be powered by magic to achieve the effect of a highly advanced civilization.

My thoughts exactly.


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It's essentially their "spirit" or something analogous to such. Immortals/dragoons have an actual body housed inside them.
Yeah, which is why its ridiculous. "Spirits" don't belong in sci fi.
 
 

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Old 12-15-2008
 
#18
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The only thing I dislike about the Stalker is the whole fusing of the dark templar with the Stalker machine. Is the body still within the Stalker? Or does the Stalker become alive like it's being powered by a machine spirit (AKA Warhammer)?
 
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Old 12-15-2008
 
#19
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Originally Posted by sakredfire View Post
Yeah, which is why its ridiculous. "Spirits" don't belong in sci fi.
Says who? A spirit in this sense is probably nothing more than the collection of data that makes up an individual's brain. The Protoss Preserver Zamara can download her mind onto a crystal.

A spirit in the sense that it continues after the individual has died, which violates the laws of physics, indeed does not belong in sci-fi. But I don't think that's what we're dealing with here.
 
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Old 12-15-2008
 
#20
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A one megaton matter/antimatter bomb is just as destructive as a one megaton nuclear device, the only difference IIRC is you don't need as much matter for the former and it's much 'cleaner' than the latter.
The "megaton" scale is a measurement of explosive energy. One megaton of TNT is, by definition, the same as a one megaton nuclear warhead or a one megaton matter/antimatter explosion. It's like saying that one foot of cable is the same length as 12 inches of cable; it's true by inspection.

The difference is that you can produce a one megaton nuclear explosion with less material than scraping together one megaton of TNT. The matter/antimatter annihilation can produce 2x the energy of the best-case fusion reaction per unit mass.

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I even had an idea awhile back where the Tempest, rather than silly flying blades, fired antimatter missiles at ground targets
So you wanted the Tempest to be a flying Reaver, firing little AoE balls at things?

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Yeah, which is why its ridiculous. "Spirits" don't belong in sci fi.
So, telepathy and general psionics is OK, but not "spirits?" As far as I'm concerned, the SC universe left the realm of hard Sci-Fi long ago.
 

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Old 12-15-2008
 
#21
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Says who? A spirit in this sense is probably nothing more than the collection of data that makes up an individual's brain. The Protoss Preserver Zamara can download her mind onto a crystal.

A spirit in the sense that it continues after the individual has died, which violates the laws of physics, indeed does not belong in sci-fi. But I don't think that's what we're dealing with here.
Sure, we can interpret the lore that way if we want to. But with the new lore-heavy campaign structure, we might be force-fed lore that we'll find hard to accept. With SCI, the somewhat open-ended nature of the lore meant that we could interpret certain things the way we saw fit.

One challenge for the development of SC2 could be to come up with lore that's mind-blowing enough that it'd be at least as good or (hopefully) better than anything our best posters could come up with. Otherwise, some parts of the game may end up feeling more than a little cheesy.

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So, telepathy and general psionics is OK, but not "spirits?" As far as I'm concerned, the SC universe left the realm of hard Sci-Fi
Sorta. Look at mass effect-a fairly hard sf universe that still incorporates "psionics" by exploiting some of the great unknowns of physics, i. e. so-called "dark energy."

Telepathy could be explained by a brain's capacity to sense and process minute disturbances in electromagnetic fields. Such a person could map the layout of an individual's brain, and monitor that activity. When you know what's connected to what, you can sort of reconstruct a thought. Over millions of years of evolution and tinkering by the xel'naga, protoss can communicate with each other telepathically, and read minds, etc.

So yeah, I'm just saying. It may not be hard sci-fi, but harder is better :-). I'm sure someone who knows enough developmental biology could come up with reasonably hard zerg lore as well.
 

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Old 12-15-2008
 
#22
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One challenge for the development of SC2 could be to come up with lore that's mind-blowing enough that it'd be at least as good or (hopefully) better than anything our best posters could come up with.
I would say the challenge is not to bother. The more crap they try to explain about Psionics, etc, the more full of crap they'll show themselves to be. Best to just gloss over it, and not make any of it integral to the plot.
 

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Old 12-16-2008
 
#23
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The challenge is to chose a not to unlikely explanation for todays scientific "blank spots" (among which is the human brain or the whole of the physical laws) AND STICK WITH IT.
I remember the roar when amond death animation discussions it was revealed that the Zealots death wasnīt his soul escaping but a teleportation device. And in that case they didnīt even explain the Zealots death animation beforehand, assumptions were based on fan canon.
 
 

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Old 12-16-2008
 
#24
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So you wanted the Tempest to be a flying Reaver, firing little AoE balls at things?
I'd be cool with that. Sounds pretty neat.

As for the Stalker, it's been confirmed by the original manual that there is a phenomenon analogous to post-death manifestations, most often referred to as "essence". The Templar Archives is a place of communion for the Templar where they may commune with their ancestors.

Dragoons are controlled by the slain Protoss within, who is able to focus through the Khala in such a way as to expand their senses and mentality to encompass the walker. The same is done with the Immortal and, presumably, the Stalker.
 
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Old 12-16-2008
 
#25
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The Protoss are supposed to be mystical, technoblabbly soft sci fi. They've always been that way; SC as a universe is only slightly more plausible than Star Wars or 40k, what with the latter's psychic field that makes da red ones go fasta because the Orks think they should.

It's what differentiates them too, yes. The Terrans use good old rusty metal technology, the Zerg use organics, and the Protoss use psi. That's just how it is.

And no, they shouldn't try explaining exactly how psionics works. That can only end in tears.

A bit on M/AM vs. fusion weaponry. Antimatter is incredibly efficient in small scale detonations. It's hugely more difficult to create, but because it gives you much more bang for your buck it is (in theory) much, much better for bomb making. There are complications, though.

Think of it like the difference between a one megaton TNT bomb and a one megaton fusion bomb; they're the same, the second is just a hell of a lot more practical and the technology has more explosive potential. It'd also be incredibly difficult for a sufficiently primitive civilization to create a fusion bomb in the same way antimatter gives us trouble.

A relevant link for the curious.
 

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Old 12-18-2008
 
#26
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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas View Post
The "megaton" scale is a measurement of explosive energy. One megaton of TNT is, by definition, the same as a one megaton nuclear warhead or a one megaton matter/antimatter explosion. It's like saying that one foot of cable is the same length as 12 inches of cable; it's true by inspection.

The difference is that you can produce a one megaton nuclear explosion with less material than scraping together one megaton of TNT. The matter/antimatter annihilation can produce 2x the energy of the best-case fusion reaction per unit mass.
I know, but there have been people before who automatically assume something is better just because it's more future-y, without really thinking it through.

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So you wanted the Tempest to be a flying Reaver, firing little AoE balls at things?
It was an idea thought up back when DSquid was being his usual stuipd self and insisted the Tempest worked fine as-is, to try and show how silly the Tempest really was. I wouldn't have a problem if they replaced the Carrier with the Tempest, just not the one with no air shield and Knife-Missiles of Doom!

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So, telepathy and general psionics is OK, but not "spirits?" As far as I'm concerned, the SC universe left the realm of hard Sci-Fi long ago.
Bah, it never was part of hard Sci-Fi from the beginning.
 

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Old 12-18-2008
 
#27
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Originally Posted by lupino View Post
It was an idea thought up back when DSquid was being his usual stuipd self and insisted the Tempest worked fine as-is, to try and show how silly the Tempest really was. I wouldn't have a problem if they replaced the Carrier with the Tempest, just not the one with no air shield and Knife-Missiles of Doom!
Could a plasma bombardment Tempest have worked? Yes.
But it wasn't nearly as cool as a flying blades of death Tempest.
Not to mention that your plasma bombardment would have removed Interceptors altogether, which was the only reason the Carrier is so memorable (as a combat unit who produced other units to fight for it).
 
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Old 12-18-2008
 
#28
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Is Zamara a high templar or a dark one? Or is she both, since she "lived" the memories of both?

Another random question-- are the terrans class one civilization, or class zero?
Are the protoss class two civilization, or class 3? What type of civilization is the xelnaga?
 
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Old 12-18-2008
 
#29
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Is Zamara a high templar or a dark one? Or is she both, since she "lived" the memories of both?
Zamara follows the Khala. She has not followed the memories of the Dark Templar; preservers can't access their memories, and Dark Templar cannot be preservers.

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Another random question-- are the terrans class one civilization, or class zero?
Are the protoss class two civilization, or class 3? What type of civilization is the xelnaga?
Where is that terminology from?
 

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Old 12-18-2008
 
#30
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Yes. All protoss tech must be psi based. Suspend your disbelief and enjoy the game.
 
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