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Old 02-11-2009
 
#1
United States GenocideAlive
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Default SD As A Ship

There was a point at which many users posted here, and felt they learned much from their posting. There was a point at which people could point to SD as a positive place for Blizzforums, and thinking that its presence was useful to forming an intelligent, noteworthy opinion. At some point, the forum suffered some kind of setback, or malaise, and it degenerated. Once it degenerated, the downhill slide was rather innocuous but steady.

Now, we have several "old" users with varying opinions of SD, but it can be universally agreed that SD needs repair. The first, easiest solution would be to have SD posters "fix" this problem ourselves by simply being civil and avoiding arguments or positions that are offensive to common sense. But, there are rivalries, there are pre-established conditions, and there are personalities; for obvious reasons, the malady cannot be the solution.

The next solution would be to simply end SD, but I think as logic goes it's generally accepted that when your arm is wounded, cutting it off is not treating the wound so much as a crass exercise in despair.

The final solution (no pun intended) is to simply moderate the forum. Moderating, however, is a more complex solution that initially forseeable. Most people subconsciously accept that the word "moderator" is a title and not a descriptor. This is because in many instances, "moderation" turns out to be "enforcement".

Enforcement is not what SD needs. Stapling a 6 page rulesheet onto the corkboard at the top of the forum and stamping it with blood red threatening ink does not perform any function other than to embitter readers. They get the feeling that SD isn't going to be "fixed" so much as it is going to be "purged".

In concept, this is logical. You kick out the "bad" users, and via diffusion the remaining "good" users who have access will come to populate the forum. However, this kind of labeling, ostracizing, and negative reinforcement does not cure anything. Rather, while SD already suffers from population problems, you will in effect starve it. Over the long term (months, years), the forum will see repopulation. This is not an ideal timeframe, regardless. But even then, what kind of user are we cultivating?

If we judge users based on their ability to simply avoid saying anything negative about another poster, rather than their ability to debate, then in effect SD's nature will be fundamentally changed. The glory days of SD will be unrealized, because SD will have become, in effect, ML with more stringent grammar / post length rules. If we remove users that have good debating skills because they are belligerent, hostile, or bombastic in speech, we are in effect stating that they are unrecoverable. I believe this is patently false.

I propose to moderaters, administrators, and superusers: what is the purpose of moderation without vision? When your only purpose is to simply visit once every two days, make some form of heavy-handed intervention when an insult has been made, and then fly back off into the clouds, what purpose does it serve?

Frankly, I am utterly galled by the direction that SD has taken in moderation and upkeep. Saying nothing of the revolving door that is moderation, it would appear that each of you possesses such a lazy, crude understanding of cultivating a userbase that you think simply kicking people out or banning them with a banal internet acronym will "fix" something.

Where is the direction?

Without any prior knowledge to the moderators in SD during its "glory days", I can almost guarantee that they were vastly different in means and practice. Something about leadership, something about forethought, something about interest, something about creativity. If you truly wish to cultivate a successful forum of intellectual individuals, you cannot do so by simply acting as a jailer. You must LEAD, by example and in practice. A six page rulebook and a hall monitor is a lazy, pathetic substitute for interest and direction.

You will be met with resistance as is all change. That is no excuse. Acting as brow-beating, angry people because others aren't getting along isn't working, it hasn't worked. Try instead rehabilitating yourself, then others. I don't want to watch SD turn into a barren wasteland because the people in positions of power think that one halfassed feel-good post once every week is better than twenty razors-flying posts using keen logic and forethought.
 
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#2
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

I thought this post was going to be a drawn-out analogy about how SD was a boat floating on an ocean and stuff. Instead I found a well thought-out (if long-winded) and painfully accurate post about how moderators should actively involve themselves in leadership as opposed to clicking the infraction button every now and then.

Lame.
 
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#3
Canada Kaizen
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

The ideal SD mod is someone who is a good debater first and foremost, and well respected by all.

I agree with your thoughts on leadership as opposed to enforcement.

SD is a fine place, it just needs the right mod. For years the mods of SD have been people that rarely frequented SD before hand. Sometimes a new mod would be installed and I would have no idea who that person was. They never engaged in SD before, and now they do because they are the mod. You are right, we need someone from the trenches.

Now I'll cut to the chase: You clearly want SD moderatorship, GA. If you're going to get my support, you need to cut out the bullshit as well. I think you could be a good moderator, but you need to have respect for the great thoughts and discussions that have taken place long before you came. SD is a very intelligent place, and it can teach you much. Lots of SD posters are radicals, and face constant ostracision everywhere on the net and in real life in regards to their views. You need to be very cognizant of that to be successful.
 

Last edited by Kaizen; 02-11-2009 at 04:14 PM.
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"Liberty, or Freedome, signifieth (properly) the absence of opposition; (by Opposition, I mean externall Impediments of motion) and may be applied no lesse to Irrationall, and Inanimate creatures, that to Rationall.

And according to this proper, and generally received meaning of the word, a free man, is he, that in those things, which by his strength and wit he is able to do, is not hindered to doe what he has a will to."

- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan.

So close... Yet so far.
 

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Old 02-11-2009
 
#4
United States GenocideAlive
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

I respect everyone I argue with, to an extent. I wouldn't bother if I didn't. For instance, you do not see me attempting to discuss things at length with JT after his jaunt to SD was terminated by a voluntary exit when his views were questioned (not attacked). I do not respect the basis for which he forms opinions, and I thus I do not respect his opinion. I think it's fairly obvious that I have given you the time of day upon numerous occasions, and I would not have done so if I did not think I had something I could learn.

That said, my job situation is in a state at which it could be rapidly changing, and I don't think modship would be good for me or the forum. If I do finally get the green light for this job, I seriously doubt I will be pulling anything less than 50 hour weeks. That will take away any and all time I would have to moderate and certainly my willpower to do so. The point behind this thread is to (hopefully) awaken someone at a higher position that continued negligence and autocracy are failing SD and magnifying the autocracy is not the solution.
 
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#5
United States The Hawaiian
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

I think Kaizen would be a great mod, and GA would be pretty much a terrible partisan mod. I think your arrogance and self-proclaimed intellectual superiority over others would only get worse if you were in a position of power. Kaizen on the other hand is level-headed and would make a great mod in my opinion.

Aside from that, Neo is a good mod anyways. Whats wrong with Neo? He posts in SD quite frequently.
 
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#6
United States Ben
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

I second Kaizen as a mod.
 
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#7
United States Grog
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

Kaizen would be a stellar choice.
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#8
United States remixedlife91
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

I fourth it?

Kaizen is a nice guy. I may not agree with him, but you know, he is a damn convincing person.
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#9
Canada Ace
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

Unless i don't see half of his posts, Kaizen isn't here enough to be a solid moderator. Speaking of which, Bred's doing a pretty shit job of it. Is it that hard to find someone who knows the rules, who is a relatively good debater, , is frequently on the site, and has objectivity?
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#10
United States Ass Kicker
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

Moderating this forum is much harder than other forums. It takes more time. Time that no one on here has. It's easy to skim through a shitty Chit Chat thread and close it. The lines are not so visible here.
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#11
Canada Ace
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

Lmao i dont have a job right now and have plenty of time on my hands now. Find someone else and i think we'd have an effective mod tandem.
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#12
BlizzForums Lackey
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

I'm confused. We're supporting an anarchist to moderate within a monarchy? No offense intended, but that seems to be at odds with the end game here.
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#13
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Default Re: SD As A Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
I propose to moderaters, administrators, and superusers: what is the purpose of moderation without vision? When your only purpose is to simply visit once every two days, make some form of heavy-handed intervention when an insult has been made, and then fly back off into the clouds, what purpose does it serve?
The decision to moderate Serious Discussion again was made by more then just myself. The staff has talked it over, and since I'm the only one currently available with enough time, and frankly, even the slightest bit interest in reading every post here, well then, I'm the natural person to volunteer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Frankly, I am utterly galled by the direction that SD has taken in moderation and upkeep. Saying nothing of the revolving door that is moderation, it would appear that each of you possesses such a lazy, crude understanding of cultivating a userbase that you think simply kicking people out or banning them with a banal internet acronym will "fix" something.
It's funny how you don't have a problem until I actually call you on something. You're "galled" over the moderation? Let me be frank: What fucking moderation are you talking about? No one moderates Serious Discussion! Hell you were lucky to even find a moderator to step in when someone reported something.

You're acting so childish right now, I really expected more from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Aside from that, Neo is a good mod anyways. Whats wrong with Neo? He posts in SD quite frequently.
To make it clear here, since I'm getting the idea none of you have actually read through the new guidelines thread, I've made a serious decision to not participate or argue in Serious Discussion anymore. I think that, on a purely babysitter level, if I were to start participating in the discussions again, I would lose objectivity.

This thread is against the rules. If you have a problem with moderation decisions you need to bring it to me first -- and frankly I'm the only one who's going to give you the time of day. Everyone else has pretty much written SD off.

If you're interested in becoming a moderator then I invite you to contact me like I mentioned up in the sticky. Let me make it also quite clear that dissent will not be tolerated. I'm going to be a nazi for awhile, and some of you wont like it. That's fine, I'm not here to be liked, I'm here to whip SD into shape. Or, I suppose, I could fail in fixing SD at all, and then we just lose the section completely.

Frankly it's your choice here -- I'm not going to fix SD alone, it's going to be the members who make it happen. As always anyone is free to contact me and comment, complain, or suggest stuff.
 
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