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Old 02-03-2009
 
#31
Israel DaveTheRave
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You know who Obama reminds me of? That dude from American Gangster. The main Character. The Black Mafia dude. Comon, don't they look similar?

And for a political view, I think Obama will do OK. I mean, he couldn't have done worse than McCain.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#32
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Denzel Washington? Nah, I don't think they look that similar.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Bro-bama's broken campaign promises:

To not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days. (signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act)
To repeal the Bush tax cuts (no longer on his agenda)
To create a windfall profits tax on oil and gas companies (no longer on his agenda)
To pull US troops out of Iraq within 16 months
To not hire lobbyists (hired Tom Daschle)
To provide a $3000 tax credit for every worked hired (not in the stimulus bill)
whoops just found out he hired a few more lobbyists into his administration

Eric Holder (Atty General)
Tom Vilsack (Ag Secretary)
William Lynn (Deputy Defense Secy.)
William Corr (Dep. HHS Secy.)
David Hayes (Dep. Interior Secy.)
Mark Patterson (Chief of Staff to Treasury)
Ron Klain (Chief of Staff to Joe Biden)
Mona Sutphen (Dep. White House Chief of Staff)
Melody Barnes (Domestic Policy Council Director)
Cecilia Munoz (White House director of intergovernmental affairs)
Patrick Gaspard (WH political affairs director)
Michael Strautmanis (Chief of Staff to POTUS asst. for intergovernmental relations)
Source
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#34
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I think Obama is laying the ground work for being a one term president. This stimulus bill seems to be losing support from the people on a daily basis. His only rationale for it seems to be "I won the election so we're doing things my way" which is about as rational an argument as Tom Daschle preaching about tax evastion from the floor of the Senate then not paying...oh wait...he did that. Other than that, Obama seems to be reverting to a typical tax and spend liberal Democrat.

Obama is running headlong into the stark differences between being a legislator and being an executive. Its all well and good to day "we're closing Gitmo", its a whole different thing to then have to actually do it. This is why legislators make terrible executives and why McCain wouldn't have fared much better.

I sincerely hope that Obama stops blaming Republicans and Rush Limbaugh. Pelosi gets away with it because, after all, she's just the Speaker of the House. Leadership in Congress pretty much consists of being the person speaking to the press the most. Blaming the opposition isn't leadership. Obama isn't in the Senate anymore and will need to stand on his own two feet if he's going to have any credibility as an effectve leader. To do that, he's going to have to take the bull by the horns and argue on the merits of his decisions. Yes, he won the election and gets the big chair and office. That doesn't translate into getting carte blanc and a rubber stamp legislative branch.

So far, I've not been impressed with his leadership and I think his inexperience is really showing through. That being said, he's only been in office a little over two weeks so I'm willing to cut the guy a little slack. I honestly hope he grows into the job. If this recession gets worse and its effects are still lingering around in three years, Hope and Change will go from the tool that vaulted him into office into a boat anchor weighing him down and costing him the next election.

My prediction is that Obama will be as effective as Jimmy Carter, but celebrated like FDR.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#35
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I have a question don't you think tax and spend is a superior fiscal policy compared to just spend?
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#36
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Yeah. Though it would be much better to not spend as much. I really don't see why politicians fight over taxes or not. I see that as being pretty irrelevant. It's the spending that needs to be gotten under control.

However lower spending across the board =/= a foreign policy of non intervention, so Ron Paul can't have my support.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#37
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It isn't a matter of tax and spend being better fiscal policy than just spend. Its a matter of controlling how much you spend (a lesson both Democrats and Republicans need to learn). Fiscal restraint is sorely lacking in this so called stimulus bill and has been the hallmark of both parties for nearly a decade now.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#38
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Do please remember that Obama's biggest campaign theme after "hope and change" was "judgment." Obama has superior judgment. He knows what he's doing and he won't be making stupid mistakes all the time like that stupid George Bush. He won't ever have to go in front of a camera and make excuses for something not working right like that stupid George Bush.

Oops. Obama has shown himself to have absolutely no good judgment at all. His stimulus bill is hovering around 40% approval from the public (just last week it was in the mid-50s), three of his Cabinet nominees have tax or other legal problems, he has reversed himself several times on big campaign promises, and on and on and on.

For example, Guantanamo to be closed within a year. Wait! Obama says it might not be closed as soon as he said. Out of Iraq in 16 months. Wait! That might not be doable, sorry I said it was! No more extraordinary rendition. Wait! We're still going to do that, but just take our word for it that we won't send them to be tortured like we say Bush did. No more warrantless wiretapping. Wait! We're going to keep on wiretapping without warrants just like Bush did, no changes.

He's acknowledged that some detainees at Gitmo who shouldn't go free will go free, and that they might return to terrorism. But Obama has said he doesn't care, that his shining new shield of Restored Moral Stature will protect us from terrorists far better than, you know, keeping those terrorists locked up.

I'm sorry but this guy is shaping up to be a bumbling moron of a President. Not even two weeks in and he's had major embarrassments hit him on every front. No lobbyists in my Administration, except those two dozen or so I just hired. My pick for Commerce Secretary rejected the invitation until he got me to promise that he will be replaced by another Republican in the Senate, my amateurish and transparent attempt to get the Dems a filibuster-proof Senate majority failed. My Health and Human Services nominee has had to withdraw because he's a tax cheat. Another one of my nominees is also a tax cheat and he hired illegal immigrants to clean his home. My judgment is awesome! And on and on and on. It's going to be a long two years until we can rein this moron in and two more after that before we can throw him out.

Obama is also a liar. He said that there was one president at a time, and now it has been revealed that his campaign aides were secretly carrying on negotiations with Iran and Syria during the campaign itself.

This guy is a fucking idiot, and by the end of this year everyone but his die-hard boot-lickers like DE, Neo, and JT, will hate him.
 

Last edited by Chaos; 02-03-2009 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyseguy View Post
It isn't a matter of tax and spend being better fiscal policy than just spend. Its a matter of controlling how much you spend (a lesson both Democrats and Republicans need to learn). Fiscal restraint is sorely lacking in this so called stimulus bill and has been the hallmark of both parties for nearly a decade now.
Since reducing spending is not a serious goal from anyone in congress, I think tax and spend is superior fiscal policy compared to just spend. We need more taxes. I think we should have a 50% tax rate across the board until the national debt is payed off.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawaiian
I have a question don't you think tax and spend is a superior fiscal policy compared to just spend?
There's not such thing as "spend". It's always via some form of taxation. In the case you're describing, it is inflation.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Since reducing spending is not a serious goal from anyone in congress, I think tax and spend is superior fiscal policy compared to just spend. We need more taxes. I think we should have a 50% tax rate across the board until the national debt is payed off.
So because Washington won't reign in the spending, increasing taxes to pay for out of control spending is the one and only way. Such smug self assurance in your superiority must be very comforting.

If you truly believe that every American should pay more, then you cut the check for 50% of your income first (and make sure you send that refund check back). Then and only then can you expect me to as well. No American should ever, under any circumstances, take home only 50 cents on every dollar they earn. Time for Washington to start justifying to the American people why they need the money. Its our money, not theirs and we need to remind them of that.

Increasing taxes during a recession is just plain irresponsible. Taking money out of an economy when money is exactly what is needed strikes at the heart of a capitalist economy. I'm against any economic or fiscal plan that involves increasing taxes. Keep in mind that the reduction of capital gains taxes resulted in a net increase in capital gains tax revenues by the government. This was brought up at one of the DNC debates to which none of the candidates had a straight answer. Give the government the same percentage of a larger pie and they end up with more money. The only way to increase the size of that pie is to get business growing again. Until then, Obama is just going to have to tighten his belt like the rest of us.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Bro-bama's broken campaign promises:

To not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days. (signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act)
To repeal the Bush tax cuts (no longer on his agenda)
To create a windfall profits tax on oil and gas companies (no longer on his agenda)
To pull US troops out of Iraq within 16 months
To not hire lobbyists (hired Tom Daschle)
To provide a $3000 tax credit for every worked hired (not in the stimulus bill)
Well put, I didn't even think of the first one as a big deal or put the 2 and 2 together on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Since reducing spending is not a serious goal from anyone in congress, I think tax and spend is superior fiscal policy compared to just spend. We need more taxes. I think we should have a 50% tax rate across the board until the national debt is payed off.
You sure you weren't born in Canada? We have some of the highest taxes in the world and believe me you spend what you make. It just straight up doesn't matter. Until they reign in spending raising taxes isn't going to make a dent in the debt.
 

Last edited by KP; 02-03-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizen View Post
There's not such thing as "spend". It's always via some form of taxation. In the case you're describing, it is inflation.
Yeah Kaizen, I know. It's the hidden form of taxation that Republicans don't ever want to talk about. This way they can pretend to be fiscal conservatives by always talking about TAXES. TAXES. TAXES! Well I'm sick of it. They literally make this a central issue on purpose because the public is largely ignorant to inflation and debt. Like Bush for example, his term is (wrongly) percieved as a failure of capitalism. Bush is (wrongly) percieved as an advocate of capitalism and laissez-faire free markets, but nothing could be further from the truth. I place the blame entirely on the Republican party and the president as it's leader. The Republican party is responsible for the death of capitalism in America, and for this I can never forgive them.

History repeats itself. We have seen this before in the 1920's where the Great Depression is percieved (nearly unanimously by historians) as being caused by the failures of capitalism -- only it wasn't capitalism -- it was the failure of central banking and the Federal Reserve system. But thats not how history sees it. Along comes the great Democrat FDR and the prophet-economist Keynes who "saved" the economy from the depression. This is exactly what we are seeing again today.

Indeed, as a history student I can testify for a fact that in the classroom the great depression is taught as a failure of capitalism. Not a perception or a theory, but as cold hard fact, I could quote my textbooks if you like. I feel like soon the textbooks will hold Bush up as the last of the "old Republicans" who favored free markets and capitalism. What a crock of shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyseguy
So because Washington won't reign in the spending, increasing taxes to pay for out of control spending is the one and only way. Such smug self assurance in your superiority must be very comforting.

If you truly believe that every American should pay more, then you cut the check for 50% of your income first (and make sure you send that refund check back). Then and only then can you expect me to as well. No American should ever, under any circumstances, take home only 50 cents on every dollar they earn. Time for Washington to start justifying to the American people why they need the money. Its our money, not theirs and we need to remind them of that.

Increasing taxes during a recession is just plain irresponsible. Taking money out of an economy when money is exactly what is needed strikes at the heart of a capitalist economy. I'm against any economic or fiscal plan that involves increasing taxes. Keep in mind that the reduction of capital gains taxes resulted in a net increase in capital gains tax revenues by the government. This was brought up at one of the DNC debates to which none of the candidates had a straight answer. Give the government the same percentage of a larger pie and they end up with more money. The only way to increase the size of that pie is to get business growing again. Until then, Obama is just going to have to tighten his belt like the rest of us.
See my point here Kaizen? Wyseguy is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. People like him have caused the death of capitalism in America. This is what Ron Paul was talking about all throughout the debates (and it flew right over everyones head). Only the mention of the word "taxes" is enough to get people worked up, they are passively ok with spending increases.

Bush was no fiscal conservative and neither are you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KP
You sure you weren't born in Canada? We have some of the highest taxes in the world and believe me you spend what you make. It just straight up doesn't matter. Until they reign in spending raising taxes isn't going to make a dent in the debt.
But just look at the response by Wyseguy, he's actually pretty typical of the average American. If they are forced to physically pay for Washingtons excesses and are made fully aware of it, the spending increases will stop.

Raise taxes!
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#44
Canada Ace
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Im not a fan for the simple reason that his "Buy American" $820 billion stimulus package is absolutely insane. Even if Canada might be spared from it, Buy American disgusts me as an idea, a sentence, and as a practice.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#45
United States The Hawaiian
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Buy American is unamerican.
 
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