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Old 01-23-2009
 
#1
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Default On the Stupidity of the Press

The Washington Post has never been a beacon of light in this poisonous field of journalism, but today it reached a new low: link

To get straight to the point, the article insinuates that removing the right of due process and habeus corpus from detainees is unjust.

Am I missing something? These are not American citizens, and thus are not protected by the Constitution. They are ununiformed irregulars who should (to my mind) be instantly shot, or at the most be considered prisoners of war: to be held until the conflict is over.

Why on earth should the United States gives its enemies the protections the Constitution gives her citizens? Has the country lost its mind?

 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
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By the way you portrayed it that would make sense. However, reality disagrees with your perceptions. You assume that because they are there, they must be our enemies or they must be terrorists. That is circular logic.

Would it surprise you to know that most detainees have been released, with no charges ever being filed because of lack of evidence? I agree with our Commander in Chiefs' foresight and wisdom, Gitmo should be closed immediately.

Why do you disagree with the principle of Habeus Corpus? It's one of the cornerstones and foundations of our legal system. It's funny how the neoconseravtives have the audacity to criticize shariah law or other practices that are occuring thousands of miles away yet at the same time say that non-Americans should not have the same rights as Americans. A bit of irony to say the least.

You want a real example of the stupidity of the press? Check out this question on FoxNews:

Would you want terrorists in your back yard?

The reign of Bush is over. I welcome the era of a new, intelligent president who commands the respect and admiration of America and the world at large.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
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I can't stand most media. It babies you like your're an idiot, and lies out it's ass.

There's two sources that I can sit down an enjoy.

http://www.economist.com/
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoraptor

To get straight to the point, the article insinuates that removing the right of due process and habeus corpus from detainees is unjust.


If we want to be better than the terrorists, we'd give them due process and habeus corpus. A lot of these guys are just pulled off the street and locked up at Gitmo. We should make damn sure they actually are terrorists before executing them.

However, the press is stupid, for a variety of reasons.

 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
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Quote:
If we want to be better than the terrorists, we'd give them due process and habeus corpus.
I'm glad you think that terrorists should be free to join up with al-Qaeda again and become al-Qaeda field commander of Yemen, as one ex-Gitmo detainee has.

Quote:
A lot of these guys are just pulled off the street and locked up at Gitmo.
No, they aren't. This isn't 2002. There's only 245 inmates at Guantanamo and they are all very very dangerous terrorists.

Quote:
We should make damn sure they actually are terrorists before executing them.
We already have.

You are throwing out 300 years of law and declaring that war criminals have even more rights than prisoners of war. Prisoners of war don't get due process or habeas corpus. They get to sit around at a prison camp until the war is over. Now war criminals get the right to a trial in the civilian judicial system of the United States, with all the same rights and privileges as American citizens?

When some mass murderer released because of your Messiah's idiot anti-terrorism policies is behind some spectacular terrorist attack, there won't be any defense for you.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
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While it is a tempting line of thought to think that by changing the way we deal with war criminals and POWs from the current war on terrorism the impetus for new terrorist recruits will be removed, it just isn't going to happen. They live on lies and deceit, and they can always find some way to spin every move we make into ridiculous dogma for their objectives.

On the media, I generally go to the BBC for my daily news fix. However, if CNN can perfect the new hologram technology and start beaming some of the daily news update MILFs into my home, I might be up for a switch.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
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What Bush should have done is reconvene the Nuremberg Trials and use that for the prosecution of terrorists. Get a panel of international jurists and use the rules set down by Nuremberg.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
I'm glad you think that terrorists should be free to join up with al-Qaeda again and become al-Qaeda field commander of Yemen, as one ex-Gitmo detainee has.
So, most of them have been released without charge. Yes, I do believe that innocent people should be released without charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
No, they aren't. This isn't 2002. There's only 245 inmates at Guantanamo and they are all very very dangerous terrorists.
Evidence please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
We already have.
Evidence please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
You are throwing out 300 years of law and declaring that war criminals have even more rights than prisoners of war. Prisoners of war don't get due process or habeas corpus. They get to sit around at a prison camp until the war is over. Now war criminals get the right to a trial in the civilian judicial system of the United States, with all the same rights and privileges as American citizens?
Thats the problem, we haven't established that these are in fact "war criminals," you've simply declared it like Bush and expect everyone else to believe you. We don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
When some mass murderer released because of your Messiah's idiot anti-terrorism policies is behind some spectacular terrorist attack, there won't be any defense for you.
Fearmongering bullshit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
While it is a tempting line of thought to think that by changing the way we deal with war criminals and POWs from the current war on terrorism the impetus for new terrorist recruits will be removed, it just isn't going to happen. They live on lies and deceit, and they can always find some way to spin every move we make into ridiculous dogma for their objectives.
Be that as it may, I think Obama's put a lot more thought into this than Bush ever did. Most foreign policy experts consider Bush to have been a bumbling idiot and the greatest embarassment this country has ever had to deal with. My terrorism and political violence professor (who worked for the state department) said every time Bush opened his mouth it was like a giant facepalm and they would have to go back and apologize for his stupidity (ex: "You're with us or with the terrorists").
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
#9
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What Bush should have done is reconvene the Nuremberg Trials and use that for the prosecution of terrorists. Get a panel of international jurists and use the rules set down by Nuremberg.
Exactly. I don't understand why the multitude of other countries out there that have been on the receiving end of terrorism for many more years than us weren't brought in to bring more legitimacy on the world scale.

I suppose the Bush Administration thought that some of these countries denouncement of the Iraqi Invasion ruled them out of participating in the trials.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
#10
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So, most of them have been released without charge. Yes, I do believe that innocent people should be released without charge.
Most of them were released to go to back to jail in their own countries or because it was determined that they posed no further threat. Not that they were innocent.

Quote:
Evidence please.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...side23.article

Quote:
Evidence please.
The only terrorists who the death penalty is being talked about for are Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the planner of September 11th, Ramzi binalShibh, the operational leader of September 11th, and Abu Zubaydah, former no. 3 of al-Qaeda. All of them have mountains of evidence against them, including confessions.

Quote:
Fearmongering bullshit.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...sm&btnG=Search
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28800516/

So why don't you take your "fearmongering bullshit" and shove it up your ass?
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
#11
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Put tracking devices into their heads!

Then a predator drone can mop it up nice and easy.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
#12
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Most of them were released to go to back to jail in their own countries or because it was determined that they posed no further threat. Not that they were innocent.
They were released because no evidence existed to charge them with a crime, plain and simple. But tell me, how does a terrorists "no longer become a threat?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
I asked you for evidence that these 245 detainees were "very very dangerous terrorists." You have failed sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
The only terrorists who the death penalty is being talked about for are Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the planner of September 11th, Ramzi binalShibh, the operational leader of September 11th, and Abu Zubaydah, former no. 3 of al-Qaeda. All of them have mountains of evidence against them, including confessions.
Fine with me, I'm talking about all the innocent people being held with no evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...sm&btnG=Search
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28800516/

So why don't you take your "fearmongering bullshit" and shove it up your ass?
Sorry but you are mistaken. Only 18 detainees have had direct involvement. The other 43 have a "plausible link with terrorist activities."

It's also interesting how these mysterious tapes always seem to surface at the most logically unsound times. Like when the Democrats are set to win the elections, or when John Kerry is set to win, or the day Obama takes office and closes Gitmo, etc.
 
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Old 01-24-2009
 
#13
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Originally Posted by JT View Post
If we want to be better than the terrorists, we'd give them due process and habeus corpus. A lot of these guys are just pulled off the street and locked up at Gitmo. We should make damn sure they actually are terrorists before executing them.
[/color]
I am not here to ridicule you or mock your beliefs, but I would like a better explanation of your viewpoint. I think that it's not uncalled-for, since we're in SD and not Chit Chat.

Why do you think that we owe terrorists due process and habeus corpus?

How do you think that terrorists should be detained, if simply finding them and arresting them is not acceptable?

Who is executing terrorists?
 
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Old 01-25-2009
 
#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive
Why do you think that we owe terrorists suspects due process and habeus corpus?
There, I corrected it for you. That should answer your question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive
How do you think that terrorists suspects should be detained, if simply finding them and arresting them is not acceptable?
Finding and arresting them is acceptable, so long as you have a good reason (evidence) to do so. Otherwise there is no reason to believe they are actually terrorists, and they should be set free.
 
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Old 01-25-2009
 
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Why do you think that we owe terrorists due process and habeus corpus?
To determine if the person on trial is actually a terrorist, just like here in the US. We don't round up random people on the pretense that some of them are murderers or rapists, then lock them up indefinitely without any guarantee of a trial or legal recourse.

Quote:
How do you think that terrorists should be detained, if simply finding them and arresting them is not acceptable?
You treat it like any criminal case; you build up evidence against said person before arresting them. That is the ONLY way we should be treating this situation IMO. Of course I am not a terrorist expert, but I do believe we, the US, should have the legal and moral high ground in these cases.

Quote:
Who is executing terrorists?
I presume this would be the punishment for actual terrorists, no?
 
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