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Old 12-28-2008
 
#16
Canada Kaizen
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 Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...
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And ultimately a good world is one where no one harms another. This is the point of virtuous behaviour. And the only way this is going to be achieved is if we can slay the beast known as ego. Or more specifically, fear.

I'm starting to let go of my desire for the world to be good. The only thing I can control is myself, and the best thing I can do is stop reacting because of non-survival based fears.
 
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"Liberty, or Freedome, signifieth (properly) the absence of opposition; (by Opposition, I mean externall Impediments of motion) and may be applied no lesse to Irrationall, and Inanimate creatures, that to Rationall.

And according to this proper, and generally received meaning of the word, a free man, is he, that in those things, which by his strength and wit he is able to do, is not hindered to doe what he has a will to."

- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan.

So close... Yet so far.
 

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Old 12-29-2008
 
#17
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To clarify, are you asserting that virtuous behavior is solely comprised of refraining from harming your fellow man?
 
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To put the world to rights?
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Where two and two always makes a five

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Old 12-29-2008
 
#18
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Well there's a few distinctions that need to be made.

There are fundamentally two types of human action:

Pro-active action
Reactive action (reacting to someone elses pro-active action focused on you)

Virtuous behaviour surely would assert that all pro-active behaviour never harm another. As for reactive behviour, I'm not sure. For instance, what is the best course of action if someone has been pro-active harmful to you?

Really, when you get down to it, this all mirrors economics and the market. The logic beind property rights (no pro-active harmful behaviour towards person or property) applies equally to all pro-active human action. If we are to have complete "liberty" in regards to property because liberty implies no hinderance of action (which we can term pro-active harmful action), this equally applies to non-property transactions. This opens us to the realm of not only property, but also anything related to emotion and human happiness.

Calling someone a loser causes unhappiness.
Hindering someone's use of property causes unhappiness.

The key element here is the reduction human induced unhappiness created through interacton.

Virtuous behaviour outlines the most effective way to carry out human interaction (trade).
 
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"Liberty, or Freedome, signifieth (properly) the absence of opposition; (by Opposition, I mean externall Impediments of motion) and may be applied no lesse to Irrationall, and Inanimate creatures, that to Rationall.

And according to this proper, and generally received meaning of the word, a free man, is he, that in those things, which by his strength and wit he is able to do, is not hindered to doe what he has a will to."

- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan.

So close... Yet so far.
 

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Old 12-29-2008
 
#19
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Seneca and Marcus Aurelius both deal (extensively) with these kind of issues, pick up a copy of letters from a stoic and/or mediations if you're interested in their philosophy or google stoicism.

Luther: if you wanted to discuss it, you shouldn't have deleted your 'open letter'.
 
 

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Old 12-29-2008
 
#20
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 Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...Kaizen must really think internet = serious business...
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Wow, that's very interesting. A quick glance at it and its quite similar to my personal views. I will be looking into this more. Thanks DD.
 
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"Liberty, or Freedome, signifieth (properly) the absence of opposition; (by Opposition, I mean externall Impediments of motion) and may be applied no lesse to Irrationall, and Inanimate creatures, that to Rationall.

And according to this proper, and generally received meaning of the word, a free man, is he, that in those things, which by his strength and wit he is able to do, is not hindered to doe what he has a will to."

- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan.

So close... Yet so far.
 

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Old 12-30-2008
 
#21
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Ditto to what kaizen said. I tried to pick up both books today but niether the local borders or library had them... will have to order. Although i think i found an online copy of meditations. Either way, thanks as well.
 
 

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Old 01-03-2009
 
#22
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If Kaizen and LS are agreeing philosophically??
 
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Are you such a dreamer
To put the world to rights?
I'll stay home forever
Where two and two always makes a five

I'll lay down the tracks
Sandbag and hide
January has April's showers
And two and two always makes a five
 

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Old 01-05-2009
 
#23
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Luther, if we were to adopt your worldview, this planet would be a very dull, uninviting and utterly hellish place to live in. Kind of like that movie "The Invasion" from 2007. You're a dirty hippie and the equivalent of a cockroach. You're possibly the only person on this forum along with DS whom I wouldn't feel the least bit of sympathy for if someone went up to you and melted your fucking limbs off and destroyed your entire world and everything you value in front of your face and then blew your brains all over the fucking concrete as you were yelping in excruciating pain. If social darwinism was allowed to pitch in, you wouldn't wake up to see another morning.

Tell me kid, whats so fucking great about your philosophy. How do you go about giving it value? What is the point of it?

Why is "pain/suffering" your only measurement of life's worth? Why is your only "purpose" seemingly to reduce suffering? Why is that your and your bullshit philosophy's only ambition? I asked you this many many times before and you've always avoided it. Why is "suffering" your only measurement of life's value? Tell me.

Nearly all of us here would rather give our lives some meaning rather than living in "pointlessness" or "absolute peace" or "lack of suffering" and all that fucking utter bullkshit! There's no value in that if theres nothing to achieve and nothing to progress or look forward to. That's something a cockroach like yourself, who enjoys existing "just for the sake of existing" (and puts a fake smile on his face every time someone knocks you out after you babble such bullshit) will never understand.

Fuck off, you unambitious simpleton.
 
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Old 01-05-2009
 
#24
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You have some anger issues dude. It's not Luthers fault you don't have friends in real life.
 
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Old 01-06-2009
 
#25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luther Stark View Post
I don't know if "beneficial" is the right term, but it may at times be a better alternative than not accepting the pain? Sometimes I'm faced with painful situations, despite my greatest efforts. Sometimes I get hit in the face for reasons beyond my control. But I have a choice about how to react to that sensation. What will getting upset accomplish, I ask myself. When I realize that sometimes it accomplishes nothing... I can choose to not get upset. And when I do that, the pain doesn't seem like anything particularly "wrong". Its just another sensation, in my view.
At any juncture, you can come to two decisions: this is unacceptable, or this is acceptable. Advocating that opting "acceptable" feelings is underused is fine. Arguing that it makes for a better way of life is fundamentally false. Our way of life is improved by dissatisfaction by current conditions, which in turn creates an onus to improve current conditions until they are more satisfactory. Regardless of any moronic rhetoric you can throw at this, it remains.

What your posts lack from an analytical standpoint is a directive stating at what point our efficiency of energy expended is no longer worthwhile. That's in essence what you fail at establishing, over and over. And the reason that you fail at establishing it is because you cannot dictate to others the amount of energy they feel is worthwhile for any given task. You could tell Romeo and Juliet that their lives are a ridiculous waste of energy and they should turn to whomever their parents tell them and hump, have babies, eat food, and live out their lives unrequited.

But stories like R&J inspire people (FAILED LOVE!), instead of making them demure, contrary your philosophy. It makes people goal-oriented rather than energy-efficiency oriented, which is also contrary to your philosophy. Some people would rather work their whole lives until their body and minds are burnt out shells, to strive to attain something they could never achieve. Given the chance, they would do it again. You call it a waste society calls it driven.

If I were asked to turn my analysis onto you, I would simply say that you are uninspired. By life, by love, by anything. You're desperate to encourage others to stop "wasting" their energy in manners you think aren't worth their time, but they keep doing it to your frustration. It is their energy to spend, and your want is to convince them to stop "wasting" their energy because their purpose makes you envious. Contrary to your self-image, I do not find you insightful or inspiring, I find you repulsive. I will burn what is left of me until there is nothing left. I don't care about you or your insipid defeatist philosophy, I will trample you underfoot. I will fight and die to hold up the pillars of a society I believe in, and I won't pause to consider your lame justifications of inert nihilist worship.
 

Last edited by GenocideAlive; 01-06-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 01-06-2009
 
#26
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Wow... this is why GA is the only person on this board with whom I'd trade places with if I needed to.

That last paragraph is a gem.
 
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Old 01-07-2009
 
#27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H0teLVi0LeT View Post
Wow... this is why GA is the only person on this board with whom I'd trade places with if I needed to.

That last paragraph is a gem.
Awwww the resident forum badass has a hard on for another dude... How cute. I could tell by your picture this was the case.
 
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I have come curiously close to the end, though
Beneath my self indulgent pitiful hole. Defeated I
Concede and move closer. I may find comfort here
I may find peace within the emptiness. How pitiful.
It's calling me...
 

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Old 01-07-2009
 
#28
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People are still posting in this thread, I think you should let us read the letter again Luther.
 
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Old 01-07-2009
 
#29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflection View Post
Awwww the resident forum badass has a hard on for another dude... How cute. I could tell by your picture this was the case.
Its called respect faggot, something you've never had nor will you ever earn. Again, do you suck so much at life that you just can't wait to post judgmental comments about someone like me on an online gaming forum? Please, before you try to sound like you know shit about the shit you spout off, make sure you understand the situation before you make a comment on it. Even if you did know what you are talking about, what the FUCK is the point of what you just posted above here? So you can sound hard on blizzforums? I wonder though, if you'd even open that moldy mouth of yours and start spitting off shit towards my face in real life. Because you can trust me that my fist would be against your 2 front teeth or straight into your neck faster than you would be able to finish your first word.
 
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Old 01-07-2009
 
#30
United States Luther Stark
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Quote:
Why is "suffering" your only measurement of life's value?
I measure the value of life by the individual's quality of experience. Positive qualities I label "happiness" (for lack of a better word) and negative qualities I label suffering (which I think fits better, so i tend to favor that word).

Quote:
It is their energy to spend, and your want is to convince them to stop "wasting" their energy because their purpose makes you envious.
What is an example of something worth striving for that is known not to benefit an individual's (or multiple individuals) quality of existence?

Ultimatly, my philosophy is that we should live our lives in such a way that our quality of existence is never that of suffering. I think your problem with this is that it would seem that doing so would require that we also never experience a positive quality of existence. As if I am advocating that we just become machines that never complain but never really feel anything at all. Quite the opposite.

In my experience I have found that the most effective way to organize my life to avoid suffering induces more significant positive experiences. I am often left feeling inspired, not by this accomplishment or that accomplishment, but by life itself.

Quote:
I don't care about you or your insipid defeatist philosophy, I will trample you underfoot. I will fight and die to hold up the pillars of a society I believe in, and I won't pause to consider your lame justifications of inert nihilist worship.
Why is it that the nihilist (me) finds value in all life and thus does not allow for harming others as an acceptable recourse, while you and hotel violet seem perfectly willing to trample on anyone who doesn't conform to your own value system?

You seem to be implicitlty asserting that life in and of itself (devoid of 'accomplishment') is worthless. How is this not nihilism at its best?

Bruce Wayne wasn't willing to kill the joker - a nihilist to the core. You evidently would have had no problem running him over with the motorcycle.

Whatever HV (and perhaps GA) value, it is a misplaced value. There is nothing worth more than human existence, regardless of the beliefs or lack of beliefs that we hold. And if they have made anything clear by their time at blizzforums, with all of their threats and insults, it is that they do not value other people.
 

Last edited by Luther Stark; 01-07-2009 at 05:26 PM.
 

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