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Old 12-22-2008
 
#1
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Default Five myths of the Bush Presidency

I came across this article from RealClearPolitics.com and was impressed. Bushteria is a common phenomenon and it isn't surprising to me that revisionist history is already being-at-work-staying-itself.

Let not the author's background deter you from serious consideration of his writing.

Personal conclusion: I don't think that President Bush will be or should be remembered as harshly as people would have us believe.

 
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Old 12-22-2008
 
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I knew all this. The man is still scum.
 
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Old 12-22-2008
 
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Yeah, and that article is kind of stupid, clearly biased and has one of those annoying and overbearing 'I know the truth' tones to it. Its points are badly argued. They actually use the expression ''The liberal media''. It just deliberately misses the point in the criticisms of Bush's presidency:

1- "Myth 3: The President's "go it alone" foreign policy ruined America's standing in the world."

No one gives a crap if the US acted with a coalition of partners because besides the UK, none of the partners that mattered were in that coalition. And the UN wasn't in on it either. Invading Iraq was just stupid because it didn't improve anything for anyone, it just made things worse.

More importantly,it's a move that certainly ruined the US standing in the world, whether you agree that the war was fair or not.

4-Myth 4: The war in Iraq caused us to "take our eye off the ball" in Afghanistan and with al Qaeda.

How was the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan two fronts of the same war? That doesn't even begin to make sense. And no one cares how much the US has spent in Afghanistan, it's too little too late. I'm pretty sure a lot more has been spent on Iraq and a lot more troops were sent there even though Bin Laden and the Taliban were in Afghanistan. And did anyone catch Bin Laden? No. Are the Taliban completely erradicated? No.

The Bush presidency was crap, maybe people exaggerated it, made stupid criticisms, and some of what is in the article is true. Every side exaggerates. But still, the presidency was crap, it's hard to argue with that.
 

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Old 12-22-2008
 
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I agree with Amok, the authors conclusions and arguments are categorically false. The national debt tripled under Bush's presidency. That means Bush increased the national debt from 5 trillion, which is the entire accumulated debt of the country from it's founding in 1776 until Bush took office in 2000, that is, in 224 years of the United States existance we accumulated 5,000,000,000,000.00 dollars in debt. Under 8 years of Bush presidency, we accumulated over 15,000,000,000,000.00 dollars in debt.

Question Philosoraptor, are you fucking joking?
 
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Old 12-23-2008
 
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The spin is strong with this one.

Also, red font makes baby Jesus cry.


 
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Old 12-23-2008
 
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Quote:
I agree with Amok, the authors conclusions and arguments are categorically false. The national debt tripled under Bush's presidency. That means Bush increased the national debt from 5 trillion, which is the entire accumulated debt of the country from it's founding in 1776 until Bush took office in 2000, that is, in 224 years of the United States existance we accumulated 5,000,000,000,000.00 dollars in debt. Under 8 years of Bush presidency, we accumulated over 15,000,000,000,000.00 dollars in debt.
That would equal 20 trillion in debt, which would be quadrupling, not tripling. The national debt really stands at 10.6 trillion, not 15 trillion or 20 trillion.

There is no excuse for it no matter what the number is; the deficits that will be accrued under the four years of Obama will make the Bush deficits look like chump change. Barack admits that he doesn't have the money for all the spending he has promised, and he has reneged on his promise to repeal the Bush tax cuts or enact new tax increases.

Unless Obama changes his mind again and takes the huge political risk of increasing taxes in bad economic times, it is inevitable that he will rack up deficits that will dwarf the Bush deficits. More spending than Bush + less tax revenue than Bush thanks to bad economy = bad news on the deficit and national debt. The federal government raked in record tax revenues during the Bush presidency thanks to lower tax rates increasing wealth creation; that will not be the case during the Obama presidency. Even with the Bush tax cuts left in place the Obama Administration can't hope to keep tax revenues rising or even steady.

This is all petulant whining by DE and JT; Obama has completely acquiesced to everything Bush has done on the economy; he is keeping Bush's war team almost completely intact, including controversial political appointees at the Department of Defense that the Left would love to see fired; he has reneged on his promise to enact oil windfall profit taxes and repeal the Bush tax cuts; he has left the issue of Guantanamo Bay completely unresolved; he has reneged on his promise of ending warrantless surveillance; he has reneged on his promise to end coercive interrogations; he has reneged on his promise to leave Iraq within 16 months of taking office; he has been more of a hawk on sending more soldiers to Afghanistan than Bush; he has invited an anti-homosexual evangelist to deliver the invocation at his inauguration, infuriating homosexual political activists.

Other than on the environment, the Obama Administration is shaping up to be a Bush third term. How well this will go over when there is no shadow of a doubt about it among the ignorant flock like DE and JT remains to be seen.

The Bush presidency was an acceptance (while acting publicly like it was a rejection) and acceleration of trends started in the Clinton presidency, and the Obama presidency looks like it will be an even greater acceleration of those same trends. Prolonged war, anti-terrorism measures that make Alex Jones and Justin Raimondo and racist Lew Rockwell dangerously close to having a stroke, reckless government spending, bad government regulation of the economy. The only thing that might minimize the fiscal damage of the four years of Obama is if the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats in the House of Representatives manage to make an effective alliance. Which is a long shot hope.
 
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Old 12-23-2008
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoraptor View Post
Personal conclusion: I don't think that President Bush will be or should be remembered as harshly as people would have us believe.
Your probably a bit right considering how harsh some people are.

However, while some certainly exaggerate how shitty of a president Bush really was, there certainly is no denying that he was one of the worst presidents in history.

I kind of feel bad for the guy. I certainly don't think he planned any of the shit storms that occurred while he was in office (even if some of those resulted from his decision making). However some people look at him as if he actually was trying to do such.
 
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Old 12-24-2008
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
There is no excuse for it no matter what the number is; the deficits that will be accrued under the four years of Obama will make the Bush deficits look like chump change. Barack admits that he doesn't have the money for all the spending he has promised, and he has reneged on his promise to repeal the Bush tax cuts or enact new tax increases.
So you think Obama will triple the national debt to 45 trillion? I don't think thats even possible. You're right, there is no excuse, Bush should be blamed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Unless Obama changes his mind again and takes the huge political risk of increasing taxes in bad economic times, it is inevitable that he will rack up deficits that will dwarf the Bush deficits. More spending than Bush + less tax revenue than Bush thanks to bad economy = bad news on the deficit and national debt. The federal government raked in record tax revenues during the Bush presidency thanks to lower tax rates increasing wealth creation; that will not be the case during the Obama presidency. Even with the Bush tax cuts left in place the Obama Administration can't hope to keep tax revenues rising or even steady.
Where is your evidence that he will spend more than Bush? How is that even possible? Record tax revenues mean nothing when you also have record deficit spending and record spending in general. "I made a personal record of $500 tonight! But I also spent 10,000 at the strip club. But hey, at least I made a personal record of $500!"

If only we could all live like htat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
This is all petulant whining by DE and JT; Obama has completely acquiesced to everything Bush has done on the economy; he is keeping Bush's war team almost completely intact, including controversial political appointees at the Department of Defense that the Left would love to see fired; he has reneged on his promise to enact oil windfall profit taxes and repeal the Bush tax cuts; he has left the issue of Guantanamo Bay completely unresolved; he has reneged on his promise of ending warrantless surveillance; he has reneged on his promise to end coercive interrogations; he has reneged on his promise to leave Iraq within 16 months of taking office; he has been more of a hawk on sending more soldiers to Afghanistan than Bush; he has invited an anti-homosexual evangelist to deliver the invocation at his inauguration, infuriating homosexual political activists.

Other than on the environment, the Obama Administration is shaping up to be a Bush third term. How well this will go over when there is no shadow of a doubt about it among the ignorant flock like DE and JT remains to be seen.

The Bush presidency was an acceptance (while acting publicly like it was a rejection) and acceleration of trends started in the Clinton presidency, and the Obama presidency looks like it will be an even greater acceleration of those same trends. Prolonged war, anti-terrorism measures that make Alex Jones and Justin Raimondo and racist Lew Rockwell dangerously close to having a stroke, reckless government spending, bad government regulation of the economy. The only thing that might minimize the fiscal damage of the four years of Obama is if the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats in the House of Representatives manage to make an effective alliance. Which is a long shot hope.
Holy shit, Chaos just whipped out that magic crystal ball he's been using for the last 6 years that has an amazingly, statistically impossible zero percent accuracy rate. And with it, he has just predicted the next 8 years of the Obama administration! Judging from his past history of predictions, we can safely say that absolutely nothing he just said will come true. I know that seems statistically improbable, indeed impossible, but Chaos has a proven track record that seems to defy all odds.
 
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Old 12-24-2008
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
This is all petulant whining by DE and JT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Read that shit, and realize what you just did.

You have been continually wrong about every goddamned subject for the past eight fucking years. What color is the sky in your world? I'd be surprised if you say blue. Bush has been an abject failure of a president, and I very much doubt that history will prove otherwise.

I also doubt that Obama will be as bad as Bush was, the great liberal bogeyman that he is. While both the Democrats and the Republicans are both large government parties, at least the Dems give some regard to the populace. The GOP does nothing more than spend like Paris Hilton on a coke-fueled shopping expedition. Add in the enormity of the scandals surrounding the Bush White House, and W makes Warren G. Harding look like George Washington.

I really do hate discussing politics because it eventually boils down to personal attacks, and many people will not budge an inch, but for the love of Christ, Chaos, wake the fuck up and admit Bush's failure. The sooner you do that, the better off humanity will be.
 
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Old 12-24-2008
 
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Psychological projections seem indeed to me what most people do when they foam at the mouth at Dubya's name.
 
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Old 12-24-2008
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
The Bush presidency was an acceptance (while acting publicly like it was a rejection) and acceleration of trends started in the Clinton presidency, and the Obama presidency looks like it will be an even greater acceleration of those same trends. Prolonged war, anti-terrorism measures that make Alex Jones and Justin Raimondo and racist Lew Rockwell dangerously close to having a stroke, reckless government spending, bad government regulation of the economy. The only thing that might minimize the fiscal damage of the four years of Obama is if the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats in the House of Representatives manage to make an effective alliance. Which is a long shot hope.
Personally, I'm glad you keep gving so much attention to Paul, Raimondo, and Rockwell. Keep spreading their names, people will search the truth for themselves!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Other than on the environment, the Obama Administration is shaping up to be a Bush third term.
So you must be very pro-Obama then?
 
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Old 12-24-2008
 
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Well I think Hitler should be remembered for the great things he did for Germany, because too many people focus on the bad!
 
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Old 12-25-2008
 
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No one has actually refuted or challenged the OP with anything better than a livid, foam-laden rant.
 
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Old 12-25-2008
 
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Yes we have, the article you linked to is categorically wrong and we have demonstrated that. Hitler did great things for Germany too, but that is not what he will be remembered for. He will be remembered for the moron that he is. You can't do a few good things and expect that to outweigh the most disasterous presidency the country has ever had. Here is a recap:

- Doubled the size of government
- Unprecedented spending which tripled the national debt
- Went to war with Iraq based on lies and manipulated "intelligence," during which he alienated most of the world against him
- Did not get Bin Laden
- Manipulated environmental policy, took an anti-scientific stance
- Destroyed civil liberties here at home

What more do you want? These terrible fuckups are what he will be remembered for, not what crumbs he might have given back to the people. Besides, the article is based on fabrications anyways since many of the "postives" he attributes to Bush were not in fact positives or were not attributable to Bush, or just never happened period.
 
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Old 12-25-2008
 
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I'm taking issue with only one because that is the only one where you are categorically false, my friend. President Bush did not destroy domestic liberty.

I am tempted to call that a livid rant as well but you barely make the cut in reasoned discourse.

 
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