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Old 01-07-2009
 
#46
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Simply that the government is not representing the people does not necessarily justify overthrowing it. The government's obligation is to enforce justice. It is possible that the government could be on the side of justice and the people against it. For example, we can conceive of a situation in which the people demanded the murder of all the Jews, but the government was protecting them, at risk of violent revolution. In this case, even if the government is not representing the will of the people, the people have no right to overthrow it, as they are at odds with justice, which the government is upholding.

This isn't to comment on anything occurring in American politics right now, only to illustrate that the government's just authority is not derived from the will or consent of the people. The authority of a party to govern is judged by their capability and willingness to uphold justice relative to other prospective governors.
In serving the highest interests of his group a leader must often make tough decisions that, if put to some kind of vote, would not be popularly supported by any stretch. And I think most of us can understand that. However, I think you've taken this idea in the wrong direction - our government was not founded to uphold some absolute notion of justice (whether or not one even exists). The only inherent absolutisms are those inalienable freedoms that everyone knows so well.
 

Last edited by Pizza; 01-07-2009 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 01-07-2009
 
#47
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The only possible foundation for asserting that liberty is desirable is by asserting that liberty is just. Would we both acknowledge that liberty is unjust, and yet believe men ought be free? The notion is absurd.

Secondly, liberty is always subordinate to justice. Why are men not free to commit murder? Because committing murder is unjust. The reason for this is because liberty is only a part of justice. It is unjust for men to be slaves, but so too is it unjust for them to follow their passions wherever they may take them without restraint (for example, to murder).
 
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Old 01-08-2009
 
#48
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To the OP, you stop obeying when it no longer suits your view when you live in a Democracy. This is not a democracy.

Pizza, I'm desperately parsing your post for something that remotely resembles a supported fact either by rationalization or source. I see neither, and when the founding fathers would endorse a concept with the creed "and justice for all" if they didn't mean "justice" and "all", I am absolutely stymied as to what they could have meant.

 
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