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Old 11-21-2008
 
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Default [Suggestion] Synergized Stats

I think we can all agree that the D2 system was unbalanced and had to be changed in some why for the sake of progress. Now, the auto-stat function has since been implemented by the devs as at least a token gesture of remediating this. However, there is some disagreement in the community as to whether the benefits of this method outweigh the drawbacks, or if it even does a sufficient job of fixing the old system's problems at all.

Not one to stand idle during a crisis, I've hashed together an alternative. I don't claim it to be flashy or even that it would even necessarily work, when push comes to shove, but having an alternative is better than having none at all. [/b]Please note that all numbers and stipulations stated beyond this point are merely there for the sake of the argument, and are in no way representative of balanced figures. Thank you.[/b]

*ahem*

The inherent problem of the D2 stat system is the tendency for one stat to be pumped to the nth degree to the neglect of the others, since each stat has absolute dominion over its own respective bracket of attributes. Thus, if you want to buff your character in regards to one attribute, you have no choice but to pump the associated stat, to the detriment of the unrelated secondary stats, which are mutually exclusive.

The logical course of action, naturally, would be to develop a system that encourages stat stratification, rather than uneven distribution. To do this, I borrowed from the skill-synergies concept, and imagined a system where all the stats are interdependent, and the actual attributes are not determined by a "governing stat" per-se, but rather each of the stats relation to the others.

Let me explain:

For every point he has invested into Strength, Dexterity, and Energy, a player get the related attributes, to a level of magnitude per point invested depending on his current level of Vitality. Linked stats would work both ways, so Vit-Str has the same effect as Str-Vit, Vit-Dex has the same effect as Dex-Vit, and so on.

So, lets presume that our sample player has 50 Vitality and 25 Strength. If at level 50 Vit a player gets 10 HP for every point into Str, then they would have 250 additional hit-points in addition to their starting attributes. Likewise, a player with 25 Vit and 50 Str would have much the same in the way of HP. The points both ways would stack, encouraging splitting stats (since the penalties would be much lower).

Since there are two methods of obtaining what is considered a "primary" attribute, the secondary attributes ultimately determine what method is chosen. This increases their importance, and helps to diversify stat builds.

Mind you, pumping a single stat would still be a viable strategy; it would merely be more common to invest in two stats rather than one, and "well rounded" character would not suffer from the fall-off in the endgame nearly as greatly. Putting "too many" points in the "wrong" stat--one of the primary arguments for the inclusion of auto-stats--would be much more difficult to do as well.

Your thoughts?
 

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Old 11-24-2008
 
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I don't really understand the imbalance with the old stat system. The only thing I found annoying was the fact that one had to get STR no matter what character they built since everything at STR requirements. A sorceress had to get 156 str if she wanted to use a Spirit Monarch -- that seemed sort of stupid to me.

By the same token I don't understand how an imbalance could occur in regards to pumping Vitality over Strength (which is how most D2 characters played nowadays). The general build for almost every character is that you get enough Str (and dex) to equip your end game items, then after that you pump Vitality.

It sounds like you're plan would introduce a more extreme imbalance -- D2 characters weren't meant to have extreme amounts of HP (barring the Barbarian or Druid), so getting a bonus of 250 hp for points into STR would be... strange to say the least.

Besides one of the reasons they introduced the auto-stat thing to D3 was because of how easy it was to mess up your character's state placement because of confusion. What you're suggesting seems to introduce a whole new level of frustration and complication on the new player O_o
 
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Old 11-24-2008
 
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I never claimed that it was a good, idea, merely that it was an idea.

Anyway, the only reason we don't typically see the D2 system as imbalanced is because we're so used to dealing with it. The fact that "pump Vit or die" is considered normal is an inherent flaw in the system. Newbies are not always aware that this is the optimal build choice, and suffer from sinking a few extra points into the other three stats. Ideally, in a balanced system, pumping ANY of the stats (not just vit) would be viable for any of the characters, but thats just not the way it goes right now.

The theory behind the synergizing idea is that it would homogenize the attributes somewhat, making it a bit harder to "screw up", as it were, since stats would work in both directions. Does it make things a bit more complicated? Definately. However, the hope is that it would make mastery of the stat system slightly less of a requirement, as characters, on the whole, would typically end up being a bit more rounded. Its anyone's guess as to whether or not my crackpot theories would hold water in reality, though.
 

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Old 11-25-2008
 
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Ahhhh, I see why they are doing it the way they are.

I don't really have a problem with it now. :P
 

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Old 11-27-2008
 
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Still though visitor -- that's really really dumbing the game down. You should just call the stats "universal stats, place anywhere" then. Some of the best strats for certain classes came out of builds like the Amazon Glass Cannon where you'd dunk literally 500 points into Dex for major damage, but tiny amounts of life.

Or ditto for a high energy sorceress that relied on Mana Shield.

Or a "titan barbarian" for massive strength, etc...

Just because the general build of a character's stats were str/dex to reqs, rest to vit, none in energy didn't mean that was the only or the best way to do it. For some vita wasn't as important (charms) so in that case they'd get more dex instead of blocking, or even more str, or whatever they wanted.

Like I understand you wouldn't want people to suffer for making mistakes, but that's just how games are sometimes. If you dump all your points into Energy with a barbarian then you should do that -- learn why it's not a good idea. I don't want to sound like one of those elite-player pricks, but I don't think the game should be made too easy. One of the major things surrounding characters was how to build them, stat and skill wise. With the way D3 is sounding it's like they're moving away from both almost, even to the point of these random rune drops that augment skills in various ways >_<!
 
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