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Old 11-16-2008
 
#16
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I'll agree that it's not a gamebreaking change since they can change itemization to work around it, but I still disagree with having no option to manual stat. The only reason I've seen that comes close to validating forced auto-stats is the balance argument, and even that doesn't work when you recognize that Diablo II was well balanced with manual stats.
 

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Old 11-16-2008
 
#17
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Originally Posted by Eli View Post
Plate chest: +10 strength

Cloth chest: +10 energy.

As a wizard, what are you going to pick?
If D3 is anything like D2, the answer to that could vary quite widely, actually, depending on the intended character build. The extra strength and armor protection would greatly benefit a mle-oriented build, whereas the latter would be best for a more traditional "ranged" build.

It's part of the Diablo franchise's charm; nothing is strictly designed for one character class or another, allowing for varied character equipment to be viable. And being able to choose your own equipment, rather than having what you need predetermined for you, is half the fun of equipping one's own character.
 

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Old 11-16-2008
 
#18
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I don't liek the idea of auto stat ups. I could see if you could choose like when ur character got to pick on the making of it. Weapon ups alone don't make a character good at melee. A CC Sorc isn't good cuz she has a +10 sword to strength that sword is only a small part. It takes alot of other points going into that and life to make her good at all.
 
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Old 11-16-2008
 
#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli View Post
Plate chest: +10 strength

Cloth chest: +10 energy.

As a wizard, what are you going to pick?
D3 =/= D2

There will be plates with +10 energy, and cloth with +10 strength. The variety of items will be huge, to compliment the variety of skills and builds.
 
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Old 11-17-2008
 
#20
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Don't like this, seems Blizzard is more and more content in doing things the easy way and reducing choices, just so it adds something later that does not quite cut it.
Why not work their asses off 24/7 a week and find a way to improve the "broken" stats in Diablo!?
 
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Old 11-17-2008
 
#21
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But on the norm, it will be cloth for casters, leather for more between builds, and heavy armor for melee based classes. That's just the nature of the best since D&D oh-so-long ago. Stat boosts will be negligible when compared to what items give you. Yeah, and while there will be a wide variety of items from plate with energy to cloth with strength, that exists for the less cookie-cutter builds. Everything else tends to follow the same plan.
 
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Old 11-18-2008
 
#22
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Stats were ridiculous in D2, for 95% of builds it was something in like put some points in strength maybe a bit in dext, get anni and torch to wear stuff like nigma and monarch and put the rest in vitality. Oh and always put 5 points in a stat each level.

I'm all for auto-stats, I mean common now just give me my 5 points in vitality already... When was the last time you put 200 strength in a char to where a Sacred Armor or an Ogre Maul. How about NEVER.

Where I do agree with people against auto-stats is that it makes gaining a level less rewarding. As Blizzard said if you take something out you need to put something new in.

This is just a random idea but I think it would be more interesting if they seperated talents and skills from one another. Like when you gain level you get skill points and talent points and you can just respec skills so that your char won't necessarily be screwed if you don't pick up the right talents but he won't be as strong as he could be. That way it would still keep people interested in creating new chars.
 
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Old 11-18-2008
 
#23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli View Post
But on the norm, it will be cloth for casters, leather for more between builds, and heavy armor for melee based classes. That's just the nature of the best since D&D oh-so-long ago. Stat boosts will be negligible when compared to what items give you. Yeah, and while there will be a wide variety of items from plate with energy to cloth with strength, that exists for the less cookie-cutter builds. Everything else tends to follow the same plan.
Why must Diablo conform to the status quo established by Dungeons and Dragons so long ago? It didn't in D1, it didn't in D2 or LoD; I fail to see why it needs to now.

Sure casters tend to be weaker than other characters, but this stems from a heavier investment into other attributes, rather than some arbitrary limitation. In Diablo, your mage can in fact, wear that fancy Plate Mail that you've been eyeballing, but they're going to have to take some time out of their studies to pump themselves up in order to do so. Its simple cause and effect. You might, however, opt for a lighter set of armor with less defense instead; not because it has additional "stats" for some inane reason, but because you can gain a measure of defense without sacrificing half of your potential mana pool to wear it. Thats how D2 was balanced, and it worked fairly well (until those imbalanced rune-words were added, anyway, but thats another problem entirely).

Besides, I keep hearing the argument that Diablo is "all about the gear". Wrong. I will not deny the importance of equipment in the franchise, and it remains quite important in its own right, but what really makes or breaks a character is the skills. Several builds, in fact, can solo through Hell difficulty naked--that should give you an idea of how important gear and skills are in comparison to each-other. Diablo is not World of WarCraft, and if Blizzard is at all sane, they won't try to design Diablo III like WoW, lest they split their fan-base. Both games are colossal time-sinks, and, excepting those few nerds with no life whatsoever, players are only going to have time for one. Best to differentiate the games and appeal to different audiences. Both games have different, dynamic systems, and they both work; no need to ruin the uniqueness by making them less dissimilar.

Now, Stats, as they were in D2, straddled the middle road of importance. They weren't as powerful as skills, but they served to further empower them, and they ultimately determined what gear you could wear. I will not deny that they were poorly balanced, but the ability to choose whether you were going to build a tank, a glass cannon, or something in-between was part of the charm of making a character in the first place. Say what you want, it added diversity. Auto-stats make all the characters clones of one another, increasing the "cookie-cutter" problem that proponents of the change claim it reduces! Utter nonsense!

Furthermore, the additional change to only having level requirements on items compounds the problem even further. Before, at least, how soon you could equip an item was determined on how heavily a character invested in the required stat (which lead to some variation). Now, there is little (if any) compunction against using what is considered to be the "best" item in the face of similar alternatives, leading more characters to use the same equipment, rather than weighing cost-to-benefit and risk-to-reward. And should items become more restricted on a class-based basis to prevent every mage and their familiar from wearing Ancient Armor, it solves nothing since it merely compartmentalizes the "clones" to their own classes.


I won't deny that the D2 system had its faults, but I am adamant that these faults can be fixed, and rightly out to be, rather than resort to this nonsense. In a balanced system, "too much" of a stat is rightly impossible--the character merely becomes stronger in one way than another. In a balanced system, well-rounded characters and hyper-specialized characters would be held on equal footing, and neither option would be truly superior to the other, given the respective benefits and drawbacks of each. D2 was not a balanced system, and by the time this was realized, it was too well-established to change. However, D3 is a new game, and I rightly believe that it can and should be mended this time around.

This auto-stats "solution", on the other hand, is a cop-out. A development shortcut where the devs are attempting to transplant a mechanic designed and balanced to an entirely different game and system, rather than fix what they've got on-hand. The Diablo franchise is not the WarCraft franchise, and it never will be

Although I find the outbursts of some that they will "refuse to buy the game" on the basis of auto-stats childish and futile, I can certainly relate to their sentiment. Blizzard has long held itself to keeping the development bar very high in terms of quality, but many feel this change to be a lapse in their standards. Understand that I have nothing but the utmost respect for the developers, but there are times, however rare, when the fan-base must cry out so that they do not lose touch with the people they ultimately designing the game for. I know that people often fear change and that some changes are to the better, but when an alteration divides the fan-base so thoroughly as this, careful consideration ought be given to the merit of the change, and alternative measures considered. There is more than one way to break an egg; a sizable portion of the community, myself included, hold to the belief that auto-stats is not the best way. Something needs to change, but removing a pre-existing feature isn't the solution.
 

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Old 11-18-2008
 
#24
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I don't know of any class that could solo hell naked besides a Summoner, or possibly a sorceress. Without a mercenary you're choices are severely limited.

The truth is that Items made D2 characters, and I hope they make D3 characters. Charms when introduced became so important to a character's build that a Sorceress without charms was a contradiction. To claim that Skills along made the character is follow when the truth is that it was the items with +skills that truly made the character.

A Barbarian with slvl 50 Battle Orders, or a sorceress with slvl 41 Frozen Orb, or a Paladin with slvl 42 Blessed Hammer, etc... The items make the character. In 1.10, a level 20 (even synergized) skill would do very little beyond act 1.

Don't like the idea of auto-stat allocation myself, but with the rune system I assume we'll have plenty of chances to customize a character.
 
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Old 11-19-2008
 
#25
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You'll note the vast majority always opt'd for that lighter armor, and in doing so wore cloth/leather items that gave bonuses to their most valuable stats/skills.

It's just the way we've tailored things, and I'm guessing it'll be that way for a time.
 
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Old 12-22-2008
 
#26
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Very bad choice. As I see it D3 is just becoming a casual game. They are killing off the D2 fans in order to expend. There was a quote I heard a long time ago about having to betray some of your current audience to expand it. Thats what they are doing with D3. I dont think its turning out for the best though.
 
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Old 12-23-2008
 
#27
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Originally Posted by WarSaw View Post
Very bad choice. As I see it D3 is just becoming a casual game. They are killing off the D2 fans in order to expend. There was a quote I heard a long time ago about having to betray some of your current audience to expand it. Thats what they are doing with D3. I dont think its turning out for the best though.
They haven't released any info on pvp yet, so you can't make a statement like that about it. The set stats are to help balance both pvp and to keep the game challenging but not impossible as you progress through it. You can still create melee wizards and bowbarbs through the use of items - they're making gold and other loot more valuable and important, which is how it should be.
 
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