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Old 07-10-2006
 
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United States Predator51
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Default Immigration

Alright, just to get some debate and discussion going on an issue that is very important (mainly for the US, but other countries as well if you can think of some good examples), I bring up the topic of Immigration (focusing on illegal immigrants from Mexico, but other examples are welcome).

What are your opinions on the issue?

Do you think a wall/fence/barrier should be built along the Mexican border to limit the number of illegal Mexican immigrants coming into the country, and that all illegal immigrants currently residing in the US should be deported? Is this the right step in securing our borders and protecting American Jobs/Wages?

Or do you think such actions are racist and that protesters are justified being against Immigration Reform. Do you think that everyone should have the opportunity to move wherever they want to better their lives, even if its to another country?

This is a broad topic that includes many issues: Security along the border including the deployment of National Guard troops, drugs and criminals crossing over, non-english speaking and uneducated immigrants moving to the US and not integrating, Immigrants taking jobs that Americans won't take because of the depressed wages businesses pay illegals, the concepts of Aztlan(sp?) and "Reconquista" as well as the Radical groups that support them, The Minute-Man Project, Mexican nationalism and the waving of Mexican flags in the United States by protesters, Students walking out of classes to protest, and the fact that a majority of Americans want immigration reform.

If your not from the US, bring up examples from your own country or one you know has had similar problems with immigration. I'll post my own viewpoints later when other points have been made and discussion is underway.
 
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Old 07-10-2006
 
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I think that there are laws restricting entrance to the United States, and Mexicans who violate those laws are in the wrong. Whether or not the law should allow the Mexicans more freedom in entering our country is a matter to be decided by the voters. But by not constructing walls and not increasing border patrol, and letting Mexicans cross the border freely, the authority of our government is undermined. If there is a law it needs to be enforced. If you don't like it, you should change it, not stymie the efforts to enforce it.
 
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Old 07-10-2006
 
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I absolutely despise the idea of having Illegal Immigrants in this country. They do NOTHING but suck up jobs that LEGAL US citizens could otherwise use, and of course theres always the 'lazy' bunch that simply sell off drugs.
 
 

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Old 07-10-2006
 
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All immigrants in our country currently that are illegal should be deported and stopped from coming back in. If it is legal and everything sure come in. But if you want in to this country I think you should have to go threw a legal program. America is a great country to live in we don't need lazy people to come in and screw it up. I was saying that if you come into this country that you should be made to get a job within the first year if you are of age. I think that is perfectly fair if you want into the country you should pull your weight. I don't see how that isn't fair. So basically

1. You want in you do it legally
2. You want in you get a job
3. If you are here in America illegally you should be deported

But Mexicans in particular I think should mainly be deported and only a few immigrants should be aloud in each year. We need to control them there taking jobs from people that need them that already live in America. I think everyone knows what ghettos are well its not blacks that are in them anymore. Its Mexicans there coming in this country and aren’t doing shit.
 
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Old 07-10-2006
 
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In spanish for my auditory.

El problema con la inmigracion ilegal en mexico es que de este lado no hay trabajo, o mejor dicho, desde mi punto de vista, la gente busca la salida mas facil a sus problemas. Pero entiendan esto si pudieran no se atreverian a cruzar la frontera, por qu es extremadamente riesgoso. Es gente que cree que no tiene otra salida.

Pero el problema que hay que atacar se encuentra de este lado, lo que se debe hacer es como dicen los gringos deportar a la gente pero no despreciarla ni maltratarla por que estados unidos es un pais de inmigrantes y quien sabe cuantos entraron a ese pais como ilegales cuando se estaba empesando a crear esa nacion.

If interest this message plis traslate to english, don't be lazy
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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I think immigration in the US is very important. It's actually a vital subject to the US. Immigration should be controlled, without tresspassing the limits of decency. I don't really think people who are already in the US illegally should be deported. That's too much trouble. Just start controlling immigration as best as you can. Controlled immigration can have benefic effects on the economy, not to mention population growth considering Hispanics have a much higher fertility rate than anyone else. Here's a thought: if the US manages to implement some reasonable immigration policy, it's population may grow along with its economy and then China would never surpass the US in power Of course uncotrolled immigration might mean economic and social chaos.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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The thing with immigration in the US is that the horse bolted decades ago, and closing the gate now really would be utterly pointless. Illegal immigrants now contribute a large part to the economy thanks to the low-paid shitty jobs they often do. With twenty million or so illegal immigrants, exactly how are they all going to be deported?

Let's stop with the 'job taking' rubbish for a start. If the minimum wage is obeyed, there is absolutely zero incentive for someone to hire an illegal immigrant over an American. CajunMan550, seeing as you are fourteen years old I doubt that you actually have a job. There is no such thing as stealing a job. Who the hell said that you were automatically entitled to a job in the first place?

Australia used to have immigration concerns, mainly with boat people from South East Asia and the Pacific. The current government decided in 2001 to turn back a Norwegian vessel that illegally entered Australian waters and instated a scheme where certain islands are now excised from our migration zone, and processing is usually done offshore. Most boat people will be held in detention until their status as refugees is ascertained.

That is a strong border protection policy, and it was put in place before a major problem with immigration could occur. If previous American governments had put the resources which the United States clearly has into protecting the border to the south, I strongly doubt that there would be such a vast number of illegal immigrants living in the United States today.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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yes, still illegal immigrants that are already in the US are part of the American economy, the only way out is to legalize their status, not to deport (that would be impossible) and to control (not stop) immigration.

And I agree with Gorbet, there's no such thing as stealing a job. Jobs are there and you take them, you don't steal them. If someone got a job illegaly, it's because someone hired them illegaly in the first place.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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Jobs actually can be taken in fact up here in Indiana there is so many immigrants (all Mexican) that if you wanted to get a start off teenage job you couldn't. It sounds like I'm just being stupid but it's true. Some places had to start firing 30 year old Mexicans so teenagers could get jobs. It was really weird these immigrants don't do anything thing. There lazy and most the Mexicans at our school are failing bad. There are few exceptions but most fit this description here. We give them free education why won’t they use it?

I got no problem with immigration from them but these people need to be under control. If there just going to come in and do nothing but work at Burger King for 3 years they need to be deported. I've seen Mexican families that are dirt broke with 4 kids and the wife’s pregnant. Gorbet I see what your saying but if some of these people want to come in our country and do nothing there a drain on our economy. We need to control this problem before it gets out of control.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunMan550
Jobs actually can be taken in fact up here in Indiana there is so many immigrants (all Mexican) that if you wanted to get a start off teenage job you couldn't. It sounds like I'm just being stupid but it's true. Some places had to start firing 30 year old Mexicans so teenagers could get jobs.
That's just tough shit. They can employ whoever the hell they want. Jobs like that need paperwork and tax file numbers and things like that, so do you even know whether the workers are illegal or not or are you just assuming?

Quote:
It was really weird these immigrants don't do anything thing. There lazy and most the Mexicans at our school are failing bad. There are few exceptions but most fit this description here. We give them free education why won’t they use it?
They don't do anything? That's funny, because I hear a lot of stories about illegal immigrants who do underpaid cash in hand work in jobs like fruitpicking. If they are in school, I'd say it's likely that they aren't illegal immigrants either. If you have made it into the public system, chances are that you are legit.

Quote:
I got no problem with immigration from them but these people need to be under control. If there just going to come in and do nothing but work at Burger King for 3 years they need to be deported. I've seen Mexican families that are dirt broke with 4 kids and the wife’s pregnant. Gorbet I see what your saying but if some of these people want to come in our country and do nothing there a drain on our economy. We need to control this problem before it gets out of control.
What the hell are you talking about? Twenty million illegal immigrants isn't it? How is that not out of control already? Who cares if they only work at Burger King? Illegal immigrants tend to enter the United States so that they can do unskilled labour and earn a bit of money.

Are you employed? If not, perhaps you should be deported.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbet
That's just tough shit. They can employ whoever the hell they want. Jobs like that need paperwork and tax file numbers and things like that, so do you even know whether the workers are illegal or not or are you just assuming?
I'm not assuming anything I'm saying if your going to come in this country do something more productive.



Quote:
They don't do anything? That's funny, because I hear a lot of stories about illegal immigrants who do underpaid cash in hand work in jobs like fruit picking. If they are in school, I'd say it's likely that they aren't illegal immigrants either. If you have made it into the public system, chances are that you are legit.
It's all immigrants, illegal or not they need to get better jobs if you come into this country try to better yourself. We don't need more people slowing our economy down. If we let them just come in and do jobs that can't be taxed or monitored then they are just a drain.



Quote:
What the hell are you talking about? Twenty million illegal immigrants isn't it? How is that not out of control already? Who cares if they only work at Burger King? Illegal immigrants tend to enter the United States so that they can do unskilled labor and earn a bit of money.

Are you employed? If not, perhaps you should be deported.
I am getting a job next year I am 1 year to young to get one. But I do plan to have a job. Where would I be deported to? Back to the state I was born in?

It is 12 million illegal last I heard. If 20 million is more current than yes, we need to fix the problem. Bush is doing what he can but he needs to be more strict.

If they only work at Burger King then they are doing nothing. If I was dictator of Cuba or something I would want immigrants coming in to have skills that would benefit my country not just do stuff we already got covered.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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I think that Mexicans and other people, like my fellow Peruvians who in a recent poll said that they would gladly go to the United Sates even illegally if given the chance should stay in their home country and make it better instead of wanting to go to another country.
They complain about the 'lack of opportunities' in their countries, but to me it is just laziness. If you can't or don't want to find a job you can create your own business.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
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So let's get this straight:

The Good: we need imigrants to fill our unskilled labour (this is better controlled by a looser immigration policy then by illegal immigrants), without this labour the economy is hurt.

The Bad: Too many takes up all the unskilled labour and companies ignore minimum wage, which can hurt the economy.

The Cajunman: Immigrants suck. Get back to your own country ya damn spics. (And yes I realize that was a racial slur he didn't use, but I'm doing West Side Story as a play right now.)

My suggestion is that a strongly enforced, but fairly loose, immigration policy, would do what needs to be done. Immigration (of unskilled labor) should be directly tied to unemployment rates. As unemployment goes up, Immigration (of unskilled laborers) should go down, and vice versa. Of course, this unemployment rate should be unemployment of lower level jobs.

Throughout all of this, a well-educated person applying for Immigration should be quickly and efficiently approved (barring those with a criminal record or other such people).
 
 

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Old 07-11-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen_Upwards
So let's get this straight:

The Good: we need imigrants to fill our unskilled labour (this is better controlled by a looser immigration policy then by illegal immigrants), without this labour the economy is hurt.

The Bad: Too many takes up all the unskilled labour and companies ignore minimum wage, which can hurt the economy.

The Cajunman: Immigrants suck. Get back to your own country ya damn spics. (And yes I realize that was a racial slur he didn't use, but I'm doing West Side Story as a play right now.)

My suggestion is that a strongly enforced, but fairly loose, immigration policy, would do what needs to be done. Immigration (of unskilled labor) should be directly tied to unemployment rates. As unemployment goes up, Immigration (of unskilled laborers) should go down, and vice versa. Of course, this unemployment rate should be unemployment of lower level jobs.

Throughout all of this, a well-educated person applying for Immigration should be quickly and efficiently approved (barring those with a criminal record or other such people).
I never ment it like that dude wtf. I was saying that immigrants are ok. As long as they come to do good work and come legally. That’s it, if you do those 2 things you can come to our country its not hard. I mean why would I say immigrants suck this country is all immigrants (sept for Indians) we all came here as immigrants. But now that we have a good government we need to control them and make sure they come in legally. And that they pull there own wait. I think it’s a fair concept you want in you have to come work not just sit around. This country will only stay as great as the people in it. That’s what I ment I never said immigrants suck don’t put words in my mouth.
 
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Old 07-11-2006
 
#15
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Oooooo! It's fun with doublethink time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
I never ment it like that dude wtf. I was saying that immigrants are ok
So you didn't mean it in a "these immigrants are lazy mexicans" way? Hmmm, let me just think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
I was saying that if you come into this country that you should be made to get a job within the first year if you are of age.
First off, I'm a Canadian, so this wouldn't quite apply to me, but I didn't get a job the first year it was legal for me to. Should I be deported? To where? Scotland (where my ancestors were from, 9 generations ago)? The same argument could be made for lots of people in the U.S.

While not racist (yet) this comment is definatly not egaltarian towards immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
But Mexicans in particular I think should mainly be deported and only a few immigrants should be aloud in each year.
Huh, so first off you think Mexicans (a race) are the worst of a bad lot (immigrants). That's pretty damn racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
I think everyone knows what ghettos are well its not blacks that are in them anymore. Its Mexicans there coming in this country and aren’t doing shit.
And there we hit it. I would love to see you prove that this comment isn't racist. Really, I think the KKK would like you to head up a chapter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
Jobs actually can be taken in fact up here in Indiana there is so many immigrants (all Mexican) that if you wanted to get a start off teenage job you couldn't.
First off, you just were racist again. Second, these Mexicans aren't doing anything, but they're stealing the jobs? Shall I ask you to explain that one or shall you just stop talking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
lazy and most the Mexicans at our school are failing bad.
Holy shit! Yup, no racism here, none at all. Completely even-handed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
I've seen Mexican families that are dirt broke with 4 kids and the wife’s pregnant
...no comment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
It's all immigrants, illegal or not they need to get better jobs if you come into this country try to better yourself.
Oh, so you ARE even-handed afterall. It's not just the illegal Mexicans you hate, but ALL the Mexican. How wonderful. An fair Mexican hater.

A closing comment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun
That’s what I ment I never said immigrants suck don’t put words in my mouth.
I only repeated what you said.
 
 

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