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Old 12-12-2008
 
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Default The Warlock

As I'm sure everybody knows, I've got a Warlock. He's currently riding at 80, and been 80 for a week. He's done all the Heroics in the game, two ten mans, and none of Naxx thus far. However, a lot of the people that I knew from BC that had two toons have quit their Warlocks for their alts, citing that Warlocks have taken a rather large hit in viability.

I'm not quite getting it. In PvP we're better than ever with improvements to all trees and we got the portal spell that gives an occasional Blink to wait out invulnerability mechanics. Lifegain sees a boost with the Improved Life Drain glyph. We're all around meaner, faster, and better.

In PvE, we've definitely seen a change. Shadowbolt is now an "occasional" spell that you throw in as filler between an Affliction build's DoT ticks. Its applied debuff has seen a 5% nerf. The Sacrifice talent is no longer the bees knees, and the Imp is now the raider's pet of choice. The spell rotation is now Curse, Corruption, Chaos Bolt, Immolate, Incinerate x 6, Conflagrate, Tap, repeat.

But we still do comparable damage and have more raid utility and mobility than before. Why are people complaining that the Warlock has seen its day and is no longer viable? I will aquiesce that Mirror Image is annoying and broken. -_-"
 
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Old 12-12-2008
 
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Warlocks are the worst class for PvP at the moment because they have the least amount of survivability and options. You may have an occasional blink, but most every melee class can get right back on you after that blink. Add in that physical DPS classes absolutely wreck people in PvP right now (though this is admittedly before resilience so things MAY change) and you can say warlocks have issues.

For PvE, they took a huge nerf from pre-LK. Imp SB procs and shadow priests shadow weave are no longer raidwide buffs, they only benefit the caster. Which is roughly 20% less dmg than before. Affliction is basically the only choice right now, but many hate affliction because you cant really use a set rotation or spam a single button to be effective DPS, you have to keep an eye on timers due to their different durations. Despite having to work so hard to keep your DPS up, you still fall behind most classes in a raid environment, even though you have little utility to go with it.

Warlocks are by no means bad in PvE, all classes put out a ton of DPS right now, its just that warlocks arent the absolute #1 by a large margin anymore.
 

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Old 12-12-2008
 
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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
Warlocks are the worst class for PvP at the moment because they have the least amount of survivability and options. You may have an occasional blink, but most every melee class can get right back on you after that blink. Add in that physical DPS classes absolutely wreck people in PvP right now (though this is admittedly before resilience so things MAY change) and you can say warlocks have issues.
Blink, Fear, Horror, Terror, Meta, a pet you can sacrifice to eat 6k damage and instant summon another, and DoTs? Admittedly they're still clothies and clothies have problems with melee. But from what I've seen from upcoming patch notes, a lot of melee are getting MORE nerfs, including the ultra-stupid Paladins and their ridiculous infinity-damage-while-invulnerable bullshit.
 
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Old 12-12-2008
 
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I don't think Warlocks aren't terrible, really. I've started off with a new Warlock and found it amazing to play with. Now I can actually take on multiple of mobs compare to my shitty rogue that was on the verge of death when taking on two mobs. Maybe I don't quite see the bigger picture but I'm quite pleased with the Warlock utilities and gameplay mechanism.
 
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Old 12-12-2008
 
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I over played my lock. But I'll bring him up to 80 soon. I really like Affliction.
 
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Old 12-12-2008
 
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Blink, Fear, Horror, Terror, Meta, a pet you can sacrifice to eat 6k damage and instant summon another, and DoTs? Admittedly they're still clothies and clothies have problems with melee. But from what I've seen from upcoming patch notes, a lot of melee are getting MORE nerfs, including the ultra-stupid Paladins and their ridiculous infinity-damage-while-invulnerable bullshit.
Fear and horror are both technically the same thing, and the horror effect is only one ability with a longish cooldown. DoT's are generally dispelled and in a lot of cases in group PvP you wont be able to cast a lot of them, just the instant casts. You cant have meta and be affliction, or a PvP spec. In order to sac, you need a VW out... if you have a VW out you sacrifice a lot of other utility that would come in handy (such as a silence/purge).

Also, ret is getting buffed from their current state in the next patch, not nerfed. Hunters are getting nerfed because their PvE damage is so far above everybody elses. Warriors are also getting buffed.

Again, warlocks arent BAD, they just arent as good as they used to be. You have to realize warlocks went from #1 PvP and PvE to maybe average, probably a little lacking on the PvP front at the moment.
 

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Old 12-13-2008
 
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Avenging Wrath: Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection, and Avenging Wrath cannot be used within 30 seconds of each other anymore. Forbearance removed from Avenging Wrath.
Divine Protection: The penalty has been removed.
Divine Shield: The penalty has been changed so that all damage done is reduced by 50% in place of an attack speed penalty.

I fail to see how forcing Paladins to force their 5 big abilities to share a cooldown and cutting their damage in half as opposed to attack speed reductions is some kind of buff. Their burst potential certainly takes a hit. Sure they can bubble every thirty seconds now, but that comes at a rather high cost when your spells cost 100% mana for 50% effect. I'm not entirely familiar with Pally mechanics so I might be missing something, but that's how I see it.

As for Warlocks, Fear and Horror are technically NOT the same thing. They have a similar effect (player loses control, runs) but they don't share a cooldown for diminishing returns and Fear gets all the PvP buffs (Nightmare, decreased cast time, Glyph for more damage taken to break). And Horror has a Glyph that reduces its cooldown by something like 20% to be much more forgiving. It's very useful when someone blows a trinket on Horror (Howl of Terror, 6s) or Death Coil (3-3.5s) thinking it's "technically the same thing as Fear" and you slap them with a Fear right after that's full duration.

New warlocks are beast, imo. I never liked SL/SL cheese though, so maybe that's why I dont' see what people are complaining about. I never used it. As for people dispelling my DoTs, they can waste all the mana dispelling them they want. They're treading water, I'm dealing damage. It's only a matter of time before something else needs their attention, and from there they're going to have to try to play catch up which they shouldn't be able to do if we have good pressure. I guess the changes have played right into my playstyle, I like to play locks like I play chess: tie him up before you beat him.
 

Last edited by GenocideAlive; 12-13-2008 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 12-13-2008
 
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I'm not quite getting it. In PvP we're better than ever with improvements to all trees and we got the portal spell that gives an occasional Blink to wait out invulnerability mechanics. Lifegain sees a boost with the Improved Life Drain glyph. We're all around meaner, faster, and better.

As for Warlocks, Fear and Horror are technically NOT the same thing. They have a similar effect (player loses control, runs) but they don't share a cooldown for diminishing returns and Fear gets all the PvP buffs (Nightmare, decreased cast time, Glyph for more damage taken to break). And Horror has a Glyph that reduces its cooldown by something like 20% to be much more forgiving. It's very useful when someone blows a trinket on Horror (Howl of Terror, 6s) or Death Coil (3-3.5s) thinking it's "technically the same thing as Fear" and you slap them with a Fear right after that's full duration.

Warlocks are beast, imo. I never liked SL/SL cheese though, so maybe that's why I dont' see what people are complaining about. I never used it.
yeah, everything you said is true.

especially in the 1300 bracket.
 
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Old 12-13-2008
 
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Avenging Wrath: Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection, and Avenging Wrath cannot be used within 30 seconds of each other anymore. Forbearance removed from Avenging Wrath.
Divine Protection: The penalty has been removed.
Divine Shield: The penalty has been changed so that all damage done is reduced by 50% in place of an attack speed penalty.

I fail to see how forcing Paladins to force their 5 big abilities to share a cooldown and cutting their damage in half as opposed to attack speed reductions is some kind of buff. Their burst potential certainly takes a hit. Sure they can bubble every thirty seconds now, but that comes at a rather high cost when your spells cost 100% mana for 50% effect. I'm not entirely familiar with Pally mechanics so I might be missing something, but that's how I see it.
They still can not bubble every 30 seconds, divine protection is a shield wall not a immunity. It is a buff because right now they are all on the forbearance cooldown, if you pop avenging wrath you cant bubble for 2 minutes, if you bubble you cant use avenging wrath for 2 minutes. Divine protection and hand of protection suffer from the same thing.

In addition, because divine protection has no forbearance anymore a paladin can pop a shield wall (50% dmg reduction) then bubble 30 seconds later, resulting in that much more survivability. They are also more able to pop wings (avenging wrath) now since it is only 30 seconds until being able to go defensive instead of 2 minutes. Basically, this is a huge buff from where they are right now.

Also, seal dmg was increased and judgement of wisdom got buffed from a ret paladin perspective and vengeance stacks up to 5 instead of just 3 (6% more dmg when its stacked up).

Quote:
As for Warlocks, Fear and Horror are technically NOT the same thing. They have a similar effect (player loses control, runs) but they don't share a cooldown for diminishing returns and Fear gets all the PvP buffs (Nightmare, decreased cast time, Glyph for more damage taken to break). And Horror has a Glyph that reduces its cooldown by something like 20% to be much more forgiving. It's very useful when someone blows a trinket on Horror (Howl of Terror, 6s) or Death Coil (3-3.5s) thinking it's "technically the same thing as Fear" and you slap them with a Fear right after that's full duration.
The only horror you have is from death coil. Howl of terror and fear are both fear effects and share DR. Nobody trinkets deathcoils because they know a fear of somekind is likely to follow. Fears can also be dispelled.

Quote:
New warlocks are beast, imo. I never liked SL/SL cheese though, so maybe that's why I dont' see what people are complaining about. I never used it. As for people dispelling my DoTs, they can waste all the mana dispelling them they want. They're treading water, I'm dealing damage. It's only a matter of time before something else needs their attention, and from there they're going to have to try to play catch up which they shouldn't be able to do if we have good pressure. I guess the changes have played right into my playstyle, I like to play locks like I play chess: tie him up before you beat him.
I can see you never really played arena much... dots do damage over time, not instantly. Because of this, if they dispel as they are applied they dont ever do any damage. This means there is no catching up to do. If they do, heals are inherently stronger than DPS from a single class, far stronger, so it is fairly easy to keep up. A good healer is quite capable of dispelling for a period, then switching to heal up, then dispelling again. I have LOADS of experience in this area as I played druid/lock (as the druid, so I am speaking from a healers perspective, I still play a resto druid even) last season and very nearly got gladiator... I was actually quite pissed off when I found out we DIDNT get it -.-

I dont know how the first season is going to play out, just because DPS is sky high and healers are having issues keeping up with it without resilience, but warlocks right now are the absolute squishiest class in the game for physical, and at the moment burst DPS absolutely rules the day.
 

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Old 12-13-2008
 
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The fact of the matter is, Warlocks were everyone's choice for DPSing at 70, and now that they're no longer leagues ahead of the other classes everyone, who at 70 switched to (I don't want to say it...) overpowered warlocks, is going back to their old classes. I don't know how many people I knew on Scilla switched from a huntard//mage//rogue to a warlock cuz SB spam was EZDEEPZ!!!. Now that you actually have to, you know, do work a la watching timers, people are going back to the other classes.

PVP, don't ask me about it.
 
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Old 12-13-2008
 
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Well, Deer that's certainly a better explanation of Paladin setup than the one I had. I can see how that would definitely be a buff, but to be honest I'm a bit mystified as to why they're buffing Paladins, they seem to be just fine right now. Very viable and a good all-around class. Again, I don't have a Paladin and I wouldn't know, but it seems to be an already-overburdened class. I'd gosofar as to say that everybody is switching to Pally alts these days.

I guess this ties in well to what Bred was saying, that people switched to Warlocks for easy damage meter rocking. A lot of the people I knew who played Warlock I would inevitably end up in arguments with because their specs would have stupid shit like Improved Searing Pain in them and they would be a class leader. I would do slightly better DPS with slightly worse gear, but given how hard it was to fuck up beating one number on the keyboard, they could always fall back on their very good damage to protect them from criticism. Apparently such is not the case anymore, and why everybody is switching back to alts after the changes saying Warlocks got nerfed. You can't really get by with fucked up specs and bad spell rotations anymore. I'm kind of glad, it makes my slots in raids much easier to come by. :P

As for dispelling DoTs, I played some 2v2 as a Rogue because it's easier to work control. As a Warlock I played 5v5s, and I didn't have problems with people dispelling DoTs. I'd just spam Tab and DoTs, and given how busy everything is the healer(s) didn't really have time to run through dispelling. My Rogue got to the 1700s, my Warlock just bounced around 1500-1600. I spent most of my time in BGs with him, farming rep and getting to the honor cap for WotLK.
 
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Old 12-13-2008
 
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Without a doubt people will find the easiest way to get top DPS, some people are just lazy like that. Rogues right now for example have a spec called HAT, which abuses the mechanics of the honor among thieves talent, and basically spam eviscerate/SnD/rupture, and completely ignore combo point generating moves because they generally have a full 5 CP's by the time they have the energy to finish.

EDIT: As for DoT's, it really depends on the bracket and the setup you go against. A paladin team will obviously just heal through it while a priest team may be more likely to dispel. If its a 4DPS 1 healer team, they will without a doubt ignore the dots and go for the squishiest target/most lethal target. If its a lame ass 3 healer team, they will spam dispel the dots and any buffs you may get just because they can.
 

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Old 12-14-2008
 
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Why are people complaining that the Warlock has seen its day and is no longer viable?
lmao, most overpowered class in game = played by crying noobs.
 
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Old 12-15-2008
 
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it's sort of cool.

i wiped the floor with a 72 warlock in ashenvale the other night. i'm still 70 and haven't even seen northrend yet.

had the thought that with berserk I would've been able to completely rape the little fearing bastard too.
 
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Old 12-15-2008
 
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I don't think Warlocks aren't terrible, really. I've started off with a new Warlock and found it amazing to play with. Now I can actually take on multiple of mobs compare to my shitty rogue that was on the verge of death when taking on two mobs. Maybe I don't quite see the bigger picture but I'm quite pleased with the Warlock utilities and gameplay mechanism.
Xeno nothing you can say about locks has much to do with this topic because all of these guys are talking about endgame locks :\ Levelling a lock will always be easy mode
 
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