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Old 08-19-2008
 
#31
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Originally Posted by Golgo 13 View Post
What kind of a payload are we talking about sending into space anyway? It would have to be significant to be worth the costs.

When the Challenger shuttle blew up, it sent debris flying over several states. I wonder what kind of hysteria there would have been had that been a container full of radioactive toxic waste.

Seems to me the best method for dealing with the waste would be to recycle it and bury what can't be used into a subducting tectonic plate.
Yes, and radioactive atmosphere, with radioactive rain as well, I personally can't wait for that!!

Rather than using our intelligence to make better solar panels, and using wind power which alone can power our entire country by itself, lets do this equally expensive thing that possibly will be worse than nuking our own country.. yes... far more intelligent...

The cost of all the nuclear plants, the cost of running the plants, and the enormous cost of sending the nuclear waste toward the sun, which is safe enough to get out of earths atmosphere without exploding, or leaking, far outweigh the cost of just building a huge wind farm along the middle of the country.

Not to mention, the windmills aren't going to leak radioactive material into ground water, rain water, atmosphere, or any other area of concern with nuclear plants.

Wind mills don't have to be sent to the sun either... and upkeep of a nuclear plant compared to a wind farm, will cost much more to maintain.

That was just a comparison to the cost alone, but the risk involved... wow...

1) Pandora's box carrying the nuclear waste can explode in the sky.
2) Pandora's box carrying the waste can be hit by a meteor, which could possibly change its direction back toward earth, or the meteor could hit earth after being exposed to the radiation.
3) Who knows what radioactive waste does when exposed to space? Maybe a huge vacuum isn't good for radioactive waste, anyone want to experiment on nuclear waste with a vacuum?
4) What if nuclear waste causes a chemical reaction in the sun that actually blows the sun up? What if it heats the sun up far beyond what earth can handle?

Yes Chaos, Brilliant idea, lets throw nuclear waste around...
 
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Old 08-19-2008
 
#32
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i just finished first-round interviews for a job at a nuclear plant ...am i part of the devil if i end up taking the job?
 
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Old 08-19-2008
 
#33
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i just finished first-round interviews for a job at a nuclear plant ...am i part of the devil if i end up taking the job?
Wtf does being part of a nuclear power plant have to do with the devil?

If you take the job, you'd be working at a power plant which is more efficient than using natural gas/coal/oil... It just has risks involved...

Some people believe the risks aren't worth it, especially when wind can be used in the united states just as effectively as building a ton of nuclear power plants.

One is noisy and not good for the scenery, the other is radioactive and not good for anything. Both are expensive, but one has no risks involved, while the other has many risks involved.

Nuclear power plants are not evil, I just don't think they are the best answer, at least not until they come up with a better way to deal with the waste. Sending it to the sun is ridiculous.
 
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Old 08-19-2008
 
#34
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Wouldn't it be better if we just bury the radioactive waste deep underground, some several hundred of miles below the surface? I mean it's not like we're going to build underground cities anytime soon, we still need to exploit every inch of this planet and air around us with high soaring towers. Plus we wouldn't run into trouble of flying nuclear debris everywhere with Chaos suggestion of sending rockets to the sun (I find this concept at most amusing rather than a possibility, but whatever). It's not like nuclear waste is going to get to the surface, nor would there be underground water that could directly affect our ecosystem.

Then again I do not know how expensive that would be, how much concentration could be kept down there in a single or few underground containment sites. Also I forgot how far we got to digging deep into the mantle of the Earth. But anyways, the amount of land we dedicate to nuclear waste is not a problem in my opinion. By the way, what would you think of sending rockets to the moon to get rid of our nuclear waste?
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#35
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Originally Posted by Meteora
Also I forgot how far we got to digging deep into the mantle of the Earth.
The continental crust is 20-30 miles thick, while the oceanic crust is 3-6 miles thick. We haven't been able to dig through it yet.

Although if we're going to go with crazy ideas, the best way to deal with nuclear waste is just to dig a giant hole all the way to the core (or at least the mantle) and toss the stuff in. It'll go on to help power the magnetic field that protects us from gamma radiation and other nasty shit.
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#36
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Yeah other than Trav you guys are ignorant as all hell.

Columbia blew up on re-entry. Not on launch or getting into orbit.

Sure if a rocket carrying tons of nuclear waste exploded on launch or while escaping orbit it would be bad. The chances of that are as close to zero as makes no difference, but you don't care.

Santrega I don't even know what to say to your post, go read a book or something the radiation in space out beyond the van Allen belts is more powerful than any radioactive material on earth by orders of magnitude, ditto with the sun. The solar system is a vastly empty place like most of space even though we have a pretty impressive collection of planets and asteroid belts and comet clouds and such at least compared to the nearby stars we've examined. I don't think we've ever had an interplanetary probe we sent out get hit by an asteroid or comet unless it was one we intentionally remote-controlled into landing (or crash-landing) onto one.

It's pretty obvious you guys don't know what our space capabilities are, we're pretty primitive still when it comes to putting people into space, putting rockets and their payloads up there and sending them where we want in the solar system? Cake.
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#37
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The only potential problem I see is a meltdown, otherwise nuclear power is safe and incredibly efficient. I would propose storing the waste for a single year and then launching a few cargo rockets into the sun carrying all the waste. Obviously it would need to be a global effort to pull this off but it would save trillions upon trillions in energy costs and bring the world together in such a massive undertaking.


Of course that would carry its own massive risk: a rocket failure in launch showering the world with the radioactive waste. To me that is the one risk that makes it almost not worth it. If there was a space tether tough... The odds of a rocket failure in launch is exceptionally low in this day and would be even lower in the future, but on a launch carrying this sort of cargo it could be mean the end of this planet if that one in a million chance paid out.
 

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Old 08-20-2008
 
#38
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Why not fire it at the moon instead, much closer, and there's only a few dozen spots to avoid (and that's probably overestimating the numbers).
 
 

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Old 08-20-2008
 
#39
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Just a half-serious, completely unresearched idea, but why not pick a mountain somewhere deep in Antarctica, dig a hole in the side, store the shit there.
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On average, Antarctica is the coldest, driest and windiest continent, and has the highest average elevation of all the continents. Since there is little precipitation, except at the coasts, the interior of the continent is technically the largest desert in the world. There are no permanent human residents and there is no evidence of any existing or pre-historic indigenous population. Only cold-adapted plants and animals survive there, including penguins, fur seals, mosses, lichen, and many types of algae.
Nevermind the 1959 Antarctic Treaty. Its the 5th largest continent, its barren, and no one lives there. We can finally put ol' Freezer-land to some use, 'cause compared to the other continents, Antarctica hasn't been pulling it's weight for shit, amirite?

Assuming all the animals and plant life reside along the coasts and outer-most areas, just transport the waste into the interior, pick a spot like a mountain, and dig a hole. Mark off an area with a 1-200 mile radius around the site as an international no-go area, all storage will be kept to a 10-20 mile radius in the center. That's still a small area compared to the size of the entire continent, right? Ecologically, can't be much worse than sending it into space with the small risk of the rocket exploding over a populated area due to some mechanical or human error. And even with the environmental conditions, surely the engineering and materials required to set up a transport system like an insulated underground train tunnel or something to the interior would be more cost-effective and safer than continuously building a bunch of huge cargo rockets just to fly them all the way into the sun or just out into the deep reaches of space for the sole purpose of waste-disposal?

Sure, you could just go with storing it in low-populated desert-areas closer to home, but that's just boring. Worst case scenario with this plan, we get to fight a mutant penguin army for control of their frozen empire.
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#40
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Originally Posted by DaDaimon View Post
I like it though that the Aussies are willing to sacrifice aborignal land for the storage of nuclear waste. I wonder how viable that politically is. Gorbet simply can't wait to beat down an uprising, can you Gorb?
Aboriginal lands only make up a small part of the Outback, and these communities could be compensated for accepting the waste. You're right about it not being politically viable though, whether the dumps were located on Aboriginal lands or not. Nearly every time a waste disposal site has been suggested in the Outback, the state involved always says that they won't take it. The Commonwealth are unlikely to push too hard for it either.

If only we lived in one of those ideal worlds where common sense prevailed and people realised that a small waste disposal site in the middle of millions of square Ks of empty desert really isn't anything worth getting worked up about.

The Outback is a little bit out of the jurisdiction of the police force I want to join anyway. :P
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#41
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Originally Posted by Predator51 View Post
Assuming all the animals and plant life reside along the coasts and outer-most areas, just transport the waste into the interior, pick a spot like a mountain, and dig a hole. Mark off an area with a 1-200 mile radius around the site as an international no-go area, all storage will be kept to a 10-20 mile radius in the center.
Well you boys have the Amundsen-Scott base right on the south pole, and if you took it up at say 60 East you ought to be able to stick it 500 miles from anywhere inhabited (including by animals) without much danger.
 
 

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Old 08-20-2008
 
#42
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Sure if a rocket carrying tons of nuclear waste exploded on launch or while escaping orbit it would be bad. The chances of that are as close to zero as makes no difference, but you don't care.
If sending shit into space is so foolproof, then explain to me why we have several recorded instances of failed satellite, probe, and shuttle launches.
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#43
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If sending shit into space is so foolproof, then explain to me why we have several recorded instances of failed satellite, probe, and shuttle launches.
Are we talking in the last couple of years or in the entire history of space flight in this country?

Because I would answer that with asking how many successful launches have we had?

I don't think launching stuff into space is that viable, just because of a waste of material that could be put to use elsewhere.

Personally I figure Nanotech is where our future truly lies. Nanites could completely break down waste -- radioactive or otherwise -- and use it to build other things. In fact with a proper level of nanotech we could completely automate building, well, anything.

Of course then the problem comes with storing the waste until we're at that level, so I'd go with the remote southern landmass suggestion.

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Old 08-20-2008
 
#44
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Oh good lord. Blasting toxic waste into space at a rate of $10,000 per pound is idiotic. Not to mention liability if one of the rockets blew up over a town's water supply. Even if rockets are 99% effective, by the time you've launched 75 rockets you're looking at statistic probability that you're going to see a failure. Either Chaos is a moron or he's trolling. Don't be stupid and argue about it, it'd never happen.
 
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Old 08-20-2008
 
#45
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Blasting toxic waste into space at a rate of $10,000 per pound is idiotic.
In the face of the trillions it will save on other conventional energy sources id say its a pretty efficient method.
 
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