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Old 09-01-2008
 
#16
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I was more responding there to Santrega's total communism. Just as there can be an excess of parental discipline (abuse) and a deficiency of it (neglect), so it goes with the discipline of the state. I don't think that the welfare state, as it exists in its current form, is effective at achieving its own stated goals or capable of being reconciled with the character of private property and personal responsibility necessary for a free society. On the other hand, a healthy polity cannot survive without a middle class or with too great a degree of disparity in property.

I would probably support some scant government welfare, maybe something akin to the English Poor Laws. Generally what is necessary to truly help out the poor is general character of charity in the people, which is a question of culture rather than legislation. In fact the numbers in which Americans give to charity, compared to the numbers in which Europeans give to charity, suggests it may be the case that increasing the size of the welfare state reduces the inclination of the people towards charity.
 
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Old 09-01-2008
 
#17
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Originally Posted by Philosoraptor View Post
If there is a proper role for government, it should be to enforce two fundamental laws: do all you have agreed to do and do not encroach upon other people or their property."
Or to put it concisely in legal jargon, contract law and property right/liability enforcement. Clearly, fundamentals of our modern government, centered around the courts using judges' rulings and common law. But, both are presently exhibiting the trend of being replaced by private arbitration, especially contract law. Which begs the question, is government -- that is, government as most of us think of it (democratically elected leaders and lawmakers, etc) -- really necessary to ensure these things?

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Last edited by Pizza; 09-01-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 09-02-2008
 
#18
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Originally Posted by Grog View Post
Of course this would still differ from current wealth redistribution, for if one was to avoid paying the taxes that were to go to welfare, one would likely end up in jail. Would your advice on government's role in encouraging charity be to simply give tax-deductions on charitable donations, while removing the welfare state?
If you're going to give tax deductions for gifts, you'll have to raise more taxes to provide your citizens with the same level of services.
 
 

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Old 09-03-2008
 
#19
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Originally Posted by Nuts View Post
Before I reply with a long winded, venomous reply; would you be kind as to clarify what you meant when you typed the above statement? My apologies for taking the comment out of context, but I would be hard pressed to infer anything positive from your wording.
I should've been more careful with my wording. I am by no means trying to insult our men and women in uniform. However, that being said, "cops" in other countries would be better compared to our FBI or even in some cases (like Russia) to the National Guard to some extent. It is quite rare for example to find your average policeman wielding semi-automatic rifles. I live in California, and in some places for example, you got "cops" riding bicycles, unarmed, with nothing but a flashlight or a baton to use as a weapon. That is fucking PATHETIC (add on top of that, you got gun restriction poisoning the state). Unlike in a lot of other countries, not enough resources are spent to properly equip or even train our men and women in uniform. Instead taxpayer money goes towards welfare, rewarding inner city criminal behavior or building "schools" with 50% dropout rates. How long will it take the largely leftist politicians to realize that you can't fight crime with rewards? Meanwhile, armed robberies + shootings happening on a regular basis in Oakland and Richmond not far from where I live (and more often in LA and vicinity). How many more fucking "checks and balances" do we need against our police?

In America, rival gangs start trouble in some sector of town, police come in and do their best to calm a potentially deadly situation. And what happens next? A bunch of thugs post "police brutality" videos on youtube and you get a herd of kids screaming "fuck da police!!" in the comment boxes?
Our cops get their hands tied behind their backs left and right.

In Russia, you'd see a lot of dead people on the scene, and they wouldn't be police officers. Next thing you know, you don't hear the word "crime" in that part of town for the near forseeable future.

Obviously I am not advocating for things to work like they do in Russia, or trying to imply that we kill off entire droves of people with no regard for innocent bystanders.

However, I must say, in my view, people in America (or at least the largely socialist or defeatist hippie crowd) have developed an attitude where nearly every criminal is seen as a victim of society and that "public education" and "socialism" would somehow fix that. On the contrary, it traps them in a comfort zone where they can live off minimum wage jobs, have a dozen kids, and spread AIDS all over the fucking place. Throwing money at the education system isn't going to do shit if you're not going to school. The proper course of action is directing an adequate amount of resources to law enforcement and telling the scumbags to shut the fuck up and get their act together (as in quit shooting or stealing?) or spend the rest of their fucking life in jail.

How is paying teachers higher salaries or providing socialized health services going to get the douchebags that live in ghettos like the one a few blocks from where I live to conclude one day that it'd be wiser to start attending class and doing their homework? How much fucking taxpayer money has to be spent so that only one of their parents works (so the other one can stay home and raise their children properly) instead of both? What do you do? Double the fucking minimum wage? Resort to communism?

Fuck all that shit. Put some fucking guns in the cop's hands and some extra police cars on the street and tell the wannabe "gangsters" to quit drawing graffiti on the walls or face major jail time. Explain to the cocksuckers that welfare is done, and fucking over with, and if they don't like that, explain to them further that their only other option is to get their ass to school, pick a fucking career and pay attention to more than just beer/blunts/bitches or the little amateur rap songs I witness them practicing every evening walking through their "hood". Its a much more cost effective and workable solution to the endless welfare shithole and victim mindset put forth (here in California at any rate).

Maybe the situation is different in Texas or something, where if you step on my property, you get shot.

But I'm just describing the general pacifist trend in America which happens to severely impede on our law enforcement's ability to properly do their job.

Shit like that is much different in countries like Russia, and not in the way Donald would make you believe.

Yet DR here starts hollering about how theres "too many cops" in America after getting a ticket. The fuck? With every problem in America, you see him vouching for a revolution.

One day his rebellious attitude will cost him though, and perhaps make him rethink of his priorities.

When the "Shit hits the fan" as he once said, he won't be "rising above the ashes" or whatever the fuck he said.

I'd think twice about what he has and what he values rather than what he doesn't have or what he thinks this nation lacks before going forwards with the "grab the pitchforks" attitude.

Behavior like that will get him killed one day if he starts getting the least bit serious about it. Defeatist "revolutionaries" will be rooted out left and right and will deeply regret any radicalist volition they molded together, I assure you.

Hopefully this was a thorough enough explanation, Nuts.
 

Last edited by H0teLVi0LeT; 09-03-2008 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 09-04-2008
 
#20
United States The Hawaiian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H0teLVi0LeT View Post
How many more fucking "checks and balances" do we need against our police?
More.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
In America, rival gangs start trouble in some sector of town, police come in and do their best to calm a potentially deadly situation. And what happens next? A bunch of thugs post "police brutality" videos on youtube and you get a herd of kids screaming "fuck da police!!" in the comment boxes?
Our cops get their hands tied behind their backs left and right.
Let's not forget our governments drug war which created the gang problem to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
In Russia, you'd see a lot of dead people on the scene, and they wouldn't be police officers. Next thing you know, you don't hear the word "crime" in that part of town for the near forseeable future.
And thats exactly what we want right? A bunch of dead people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
However, I must say, in my view, people in America (or at least the largely socialist or defeatist hippie crowd) have developed an attitude where nearly every criminal is seen as a victim of society and that "public education" and "socialism" would somehow fix that. On the contrary, it traps them in a comfort zone where they can live off minimum wage jobs, have a dozen kids, and spread AIDS all over the fucking place. Throwing money at the education system isn't going to do shit if you're not going to school. The proper course of action is directing an adequate amount of resources to law enforcement and telling the scumbags to shut the fuck up and get their act together (as in quit shooting or stealing?) or spend the rest of their fucking life in jail.
An even better allocation of resources would be to end the drug war which is the cause of most of the crime to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
How is paying teachers higher salaries or providing socialized health services going to get the douchebags that live in ghettos like the one a few blocks from where I live to conclude one day that it'd be wiser to start attending class and doing their homework? How much fucking taxpayer money has to be spent so that only one of their parents works (so the other one can stay home and raise their children properly) instead of both? What do you do? Double the fucking minimum wage? Resort to communism?
End the drug war, welfare, and minimum wage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
Fuck all that shit. Put some fucking guns in the cop's hands and some extra police cars on the street and tell the wannabe "gangsters" to quit drawing graffiti on the walls or face major jail time. Explain to the cocksuckers that welfare is done, and fucking over with, and if they don't like that, explain to them further that their only other option is to get their ass to school, pick a fucking career and pay attention to more than just beer/blunts/bitches or the little amateur rap songs I witness them practicing every evening walking through their "hood". Its a much more cost effective and workable solution to the endless welfare shithole and victim mindset put forth (here in California at any rate).
We should end the drug war, it would solve most of our crime problems. Legalize all drugs ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
Maybe the situation is different in Texas or something, where if you step on my property, you get shot.

But I'm just describing the general pacifist trend in America which happens to severely impede on our law enforcement's ability to properly do their job.

Shit like that is much different in countries like Russia, and not in the way Donald would make you believe.
Yeah, because in Russia if you have a problem with the cops you can just pay them off. It's too hard to do that here. Cops have too much power in Russia and they abuse it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HV
Yet DR here starts hollering about how theres "too many cops" in America after getting a ticket. The fuck? With every problem in America, you see him vouching for a revolution.One day his rebellious attitude will cost him though, and perhaps make him rethink of his priorities.When the "Shit hits the fan" as he once said, he won't be "rising above the ashes" or whatever the fuck he said. I'd think twice about what he has and what he values rather than what he doesn't have or what he thinks this nation lacks before going forwards with the "grab the pitchforks" attitude. Behavior like that will get him killed one day if he starts getting the least bit serious about it. Defeatist "revolutionaries" will be rooted out left and right and will deeply regret any radicalist volition they molded together, I assure you.

Hopefully this was a thorough enough explanation, Nuts.
Nobody said anything about a revolution, when the shit hits the fan I have my own guns and I don't need protection from the police. Not to mention I would be protecting your ass with my NG unit to boot.

I respect police officers who don't take people to jail for having the tiniest bit of marijuana, these officers command respect. The others can go fuck themselves.
 
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