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Old 02-10-2009
 
#31
United States The Hawaiian
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

Interesting build roegi Im gonna try that.

But I got to admit I'm not really one to follow build orders like that. They don't make sense to me. I can't try to build something exactly as it says in writing I sorta just go with the flow and do what I think has a shot at working. Although that build sounds almost exactly like what I try to do only I don't wait that long usually I'll go with 1 tank and 1 medic.
 
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Old 02-10-2009
 
#32
United Kingdom Nytefish
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

I've been trying out the standard TvP opening in TvZ.
I like it because there's a lot of variations.
I play RvR with someone often so I have to keep mixing it up to keep him guessing.
I don't remember builds by supply so I'll just outline it.

You start of by walling in and doing the standard TvP build where you get your factory around 16 or something. Then you choose one of:
1) Build a vulture to annoy the zerg, depending on what he does you could make more. Usually zergs will respond by placing a sunken and building some hydras.
Then you can add academy, barracks, machine shop and go for a tank rush. I'm pretty sure it arrives before 3hatch tech but not sure about 2hatch.
2) After the vulture(s),expand instead, but if you want to play like that you might as well have done 1rax expo.
3) Go for a dropship/mines and vulture drop instead of the tank rush (natural follow on if you made a few vultures but couldn't get into his main).
4) 2port wraith.
5) MnM drop. For this you should probably keep pumping marines, only stopping to place the starport/academy quicker.
6) Completely forget you're playing TvZ and do a joyo push or similar 2fact attack. You need a good reason to believe he's not going muta first.

There's probably other stuff but I kind of just make it up as I'm playing. These are meant to be "cheesey" builds so you'll want to be skipping SCVs at times.


On an unrelated note, I had some fun encounters on iccup today.
I played a TvP where I killed his natural nexus with a 2fact attack but didn't have enough to finish him off so I just backed off, expanded twice (it was medusa) and turtled. 10 minutes later, after his army melts to my unseiged units he tries to justify his loss, I don't have the rep with me but the chat went a bit like:
"You got big advantage in the beginning then you turtled."
"Yes, because that's the easiest way to ensure a win."
"You used a gay strat, you're a noob, I'm better than you, the real loser is you."
"The loser is the one who loses."
'blah blah has left the game'

Even when I play completely standard I get a lot of "lucky noob".
Well not my fault you're bad enough to lose to my 1a2a3a protoss.

I also played a fun PvZ where the whole map was mined out, I had lost my main and moved to another one which I camped with cannons/storm/dark archons. His endgame plan was setting up a lurker field and building scourge/hydralisk to kill my observers. Of course toss spellcasters are imbalanced in this kind of situation. I end up mind controlling his queens and using them to broodling his units. Also I manage to steal a drone which I use to build overlords for detection. Then my baby brother started crying so I held him while slowly picking away at the zerg units with maelstrom/storm/mind control. Eventually he realised there was no way he would win this war of attrition.

(looking at the replay after I realised I could've just charged out with my 200 supply, mostly archon, army. HT's low mineral cost also make this endgame situation really hard for the zerg)
 

Last edited by Nytefish; 02-10-2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#33
United States The Hawaiian
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

Replay please, I enjoy watching those kinds of games.

I'm starting to realize my greatest weakness now is TvP. For some reason I can't fight against non-aggressive Protoss. I have trouble with a passive Protoss who expands, it seems like I cant take out his expansions or go to his main, the zealots always fuck me up bad when I tried to siege or the goons just take out my vultures and mines, I don't know wtf is going on. I think the problem is I'm not going with enough units. 12 vultures and 12 tanks is not enough correct? I feel like my army always gets destroyed whenever I try to push out, and keep in mind my micro really sucks.

I dunno, I feel like I'm trapped sometimes with Protoss. I'll usually try to build dropships and drop somewhere but that doesn't seem to work. I have absolutely not map control in TvP past early game.

When it's very early in the game I have like SUPER-ultra confidence and I feel very comfortable like I have full control of the map and my units and I can fuck around and pretty much do whatever I want. However, the longer the game goes on the odds go against my favor, I get less and less confident and it's harder and harder for me to expand or get out of my base. It's like the tables completely turn against me once the protoss gets a good number of zealots they always seem to fuck me up bad.

I need to watch some TvP replays to get a better grasp. My TvP used to be fucking awesome too...
 
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Old 02-11-2009
 
#34
United States roegi
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

With the build order I posted, your medic doesn't even come out until your 3rd tank is half done
I don't think you can get them out any earlier unless you cut quite a few SCVs

As for killing protosses... try 6facting, every game. Them tosses never see it coming.
The BO is pretty simple:
Siege expand -> factory -> academy -> factory 4x
Take your nat gas as you transfer SCVs
You can also build the academy after more factories, and your push will be stronger, but you'll have to rely almost completely on SCVs to scout and DTs might be really annoying.
You push out when the Protoss 3rd is 3/4 done or so, you should be at ~110 supply if the Protoss didn't take it off 2 gates or something (in which case you have to push earlier off 4 factories and add 2 more as you push)

Also, Medusa is a horrible map for TvP :[
 
 

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Old 02-11-2009
 
#35
United States The Hawaiian
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

Played my first game on Longinus. Actually I like this map it's fuckin awesome. Too bad you can't 2v2 on it.

http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=7683
 
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Old 02-12-2009
 
#36
United Kingdom Nytefish
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Replay please, I enjoy watching those kinds of games.

I'm starting to realize my greatest weakness now is TvP. For some reason I can't fight against non-aggressive Protoss. I have trouble with a passive Protoss who expands, it seems like I cant take out his expansions or go to his main, the zealots always fuck me up bad when I tried to siege or the goons just take out my vultures and mines, I don't know wtf is going on. I think the problem is I'm not going with enough units. 12 vultures and 12 tanks is not enough correct? I feel like my army always gets destroyed whenever I try to push out, and keep in mind my micro really sucks.

I dunno, I feel like I'm trapped sometimes with Protoss. I'll usually try to build dropships and drop somewhere but that doesn't seem to work. I have absolutely not map control in TvP past early game.

When it's very early in the game I have like SUPER-ultra confidence and I feel very comfortable like I have full control of the map and my units and I can fuck around and pretty much do whatever I want. However, the longer the game goes on the odds go against my favor, I get less and less confident and it's harder and harder for me to expand or get out of my base. It's like the tables completely turn against me once the protoss gets a good number of zealots they always seem to fuck me up bad.

I need to watch some TvP replays to get a better grasp. My TvP used to be fucking awesome too...
Replay of what? This is that long PvZ, it's not an amazing game though.
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=7704

And your TvP problem, it's mostly lack of macro and timing. It's hard to explain quickly since it's basically the whole theory of modern TvP. For example, the 2base 6fact attack is intended to abuse the toss's lack of army when taking his 3rd expansion. Other styles push out later but with more units/upgrades.

And roegi if you're talking about the build I was using. I remember I didn't make the tank as fast as possible.

Oh I found the rep, and found out what that 'make private' thing on repdepot does as well.
This guy was slowed down unnecessarily by the vulture though, the lack of ramp helped it to be more effective too.
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=7705&key=f8eaa8
 

Last edited by Nytefish; 02-12-2009 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 02-13-2009
 
#37
United States roegi
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

I think I did the exact same build vrs john_dough
Also, if you can learn to fend off DTs/reavers/bulldogs you can beat like half the people at D+
Silly tosses ~_~
 
 

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Old 02-13-2009
 
#38
Australia FPS_Deano
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by roegi View Post
I think I did the exact same build vrs john_dough
Also, if you can learn to fend off DTs/reavers/bulldogs you can beat like half the people at D+
Silly tosses ~_~
That is not saying much though. Alot of D+ Protoss can't even properly defend FD. I've played people who lose their natural nexus or probes, and i'm only D+/C- myself t.t
 
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Old 02-17-2009
 
#39
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

lol Deano.
 
 

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Old 02-17-2009
 
#40
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Default Re: Terran vs Zerg strategy

No seriously. D+ players will lose to retarded things. Even me, I can't count the ammount of games I've lost because my scanners weren't hotkeyed or how i've lost to 2base carriers or something ridiculous like that.
 
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