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Old 01-12-2009
 
#16
United States GenocideAlive
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POTM is too night elvish in nature, imo. I agree the next hero class needs to be healing oriented, but I don't think a POTM is the right fit. Something like a Shadow Hunter would be a better fit I think, what with the next expansion likely involving the Dream.
Isn't a DK "too undeadish / Lich Kingish" in nature? Quite honestly PoTM is far less of a stretch than DKs on both sides of the fence, if you ask me. Not to mention the intrinsic druid / priestess involvement with the Emerald Dream, which you seem to have somehow attached to the Trolls, who have no involvement that I can think of with the Emerald Dream whatsoever. ?
 
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Old 01-12-2009
 
#17
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Isn't a DK "too undeadish / Lich Kingish" in nature? Quite honestly PoTM is far less of a stretch than DKs on both sides of the fence, if you ask me. Not to mention the intrinsic druid / priestess involvement with the Emerald Dream, which you seem to have somehow attached to the Trolls, who have no involvement that I can think of with the Emerald Dream whatsoever. ?
You mean Death Knights that played a major part in Warcraft Lore since, Warcraft 2? And its expansions? And every other subsequent thing labelled "warcraft" since? Versus a single 'hehehe i have bewbs and ride a tiger' character that presented itself in the Warcraft 3 campaign? Every Alliance race (minus spaceberries and maybe gnomes) can be associated with Death Knights. Orcs, the Forsaken and Blood elves can also be associated with Death knights. That leaves three, four at most questionable races.

Priest(ess) of the Moon... Hm... Yes, I can see Gnome Priest(esse)s of The Moon running around, purging darkness from the land of Azeroth!! Come on dude, I know you love to play Devil's Advocat, but get real.

I said Shadow Hunter simply because considering how the next expansion is going to be focusing on the "Emerald Nightmare" and the boogiemen running around in the druidic plain, maybe, just maybe, we could use a class that's built to fight it?
 
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Old 01-12-2009
 
#18
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Shadow Hunter sounds appealing; I wonder how it'll play out as.
 
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Old 01-13-2009
 
#19
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Isn't a DK "too undeadish / Lich Kingish" in nature? Quite honestly PoTM is far less of a stretch than DKs on both sides of the fence, if you ask me. Not to mention the intrinsic druid / priestess involvement with the Emerald Dream, which you seem to have somehow attached to the Trolls, who have no involvement that I can think of with the Emerald Dream whatsoever. ?
DKs weren't always undead-minions of the Lich King.

Personally I always considered them the anti-pallys of the WC universe, but seeing as we already have a pally class I'm not sure what would work as a counterpoint to the DK. I would honestly expect a Paladin-like "Blessed by the Light" type hero class (if one focused more around healing).

meh I dunno. honestly another 'hero class' that could work for ANY race just seems unlikely. Death Knights worked and fits the lore of how anyone can be corrupted, but PotM Undead? Sides we already have priest/ess class anyway.

WTB Pandaren Hero Class.
 
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Old 01-14-2009
 
#20
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Originally Posted by Bred
You mean Death Knights that played a major part in Warcraft Lore since, Warcraft 2? And its expansions? And every other subsequent thing labelled "warcraft" since?
Since you're apparently so keen on WC lore, please tell me, where did Death Knights originate? And then, for whom did they fight? You take turns ignoring key aspects of Death Knights as it suits you.

DKs were risen from dead Knights of Stormwind by Gul'dan, who used their bodies to possess with horde warlocks from the Shadow Council. So here, we have HU bodies used by Orcs to kill Humans. Based on this lore, do you see:

A. An Orc Warlock defecting to the ally side
B. An ally trusting or fighting alongside an undead (whom the horde barely trust)
C. Any other races / classes being raised to be a DK

You can ridicule me or attack what you believe is my motive all you'd like, but the frank fact of the matter is, as-written, current WotLK "lore" surrounding Death Knights makes no sense whatsoever. Even in WCIII when Ner'zhul had supposedly found a way to copy his master's ability, "Death Knights" still follow the HU Paladin / Knight turned-undead theme. I look forward to a defense of WotLK lore that does not involve pointing out the obvious in a manner that has nothing to do with my point.
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Every Alliance race (minus spaceberries and maybe gnomes) can be associated with Death Knights. Orcs, the Forsaken and Blood elves can also be associated with Death knights. That leaves three, four at most questionable races.
Are you high? Please point to something pre-WotLK that points to Death Knights being made of anything but human bodies. Orcs and Undead obviously have associations with them, but I have as of yet to see anything that supports your claim that Alliance would suddenly want anything to do with Death Knights whatsoever.

Even the Official Warcraft website says very plainly: Unlike Gul'dan's Death Knights, these dark champions do not possess free will and their minds are inexorably entwined with and dominated by the Lich King's vast consciousness.

Rather plainly to anyone that isn't a troll, Blizzard raped lore for balance purposes.
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Priest(ess) of the Moon... Hm... Yes, I can see Gnome Priest(esse)s of The Moon running around, purging darkness from the land of Azeroth!! Come on dude, I know you love to play Devil's Advocat, but get real.

I said Shadow Hunter simply because considering how the next expansion is going to be focusing on the "Emerald Nightmare" and the boogiemen running around in the druidic plain, maybe, just maybe, we could use a class that's built to fight it?
OK, so let's recap:

1. You ignore that Emerald Dream is solely NE lore due to their races lone interaction, and that PotMs have origins within Night Elves
2. You ignore that Death Knights should never be even working for Ally, much less be comprised of ally races
3. You ridicule Gnome PotMs because apparently a caster class casting seems less plausible than a gnome strapping on plate armor, wielding a giant bastard sword, and serving the Lich King
4. You bring up Shadow Hunters as though they are primed to fight Emerald Nightmare, even though Shadow Hunters power is based on Loa, standalone troll gods of voodoo, and PotM frequent the Emerald Dream as no other race on Azeroth
5. You apparently know nothing about the origins of the word "Shadow" in Shadow Hunter, and are oblivious to its duplicitious meaning. It indicates that the Hunter fights Shadow with Shadow--he "walks the line" between good and evil like this.

It hardly seems logical to employ a group of trolls using shadow powers to enter the Night Elf druid's homeworld and fight shadow powers. That seems like you'd end up with a lot of confused, corrupted trolls and bigger problems than you started. This, as opposed to recruiting a bunch of veterans from the Emerald Dream that rely on the Earth Mother's power for guidance and divine blessing, which seems an almost indestructable opponent for the given malady. If you want to say you like Shadow Hunters better because they seem cooler, fine. But saying Death Knights make sense because they date back to WC2 and PotMs are dumb because they have big tits and ride on a tiger is just moronic.
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Originally Posted by Neo
DKs weren't always undead-minions of the Lich King.
Please quote me saying that, then I'll respond.
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Originally Posted by Neo
Sides we already have priest/ess class anyway.
This is so pointless as to make my teeth hurt. We "already have" every class, if you want to pretend that there are no differences between classes. Healers are casters, DPS that cast spells are casters. Paladins, Warriors, Rogues, Shamen, and Death Knights are all fighters. What's left to be made, under your giant blanket of smearing generalization? Either you admit to yourself that there is something that is left to be done or face that you don't care to think beyond what we have.
 

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Old 01-16-2009
 
#21
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
This is so pointless as to make my teeth hurt. We "already have" every class, if you want to pretend that there are no differences between classes. Healers are casters, DPS that cast spells are casters. Paladins, Warriors, Rogues, Shamen, and Death Knights are all fighters. What's left to be made, under your giant blanket of smearing generalization? Either you admit to yourself that there is something that is left to be done or face that you don't care to think beyond what we have.
awefully hostile aren't you? geez GA.

The point was that we have a priest class. a POTM hero class would be stupid. The point being that the what they did with Death Knights are interesting -- since they can DPS or Tank in either tree or spec. It would be interesting to see another hero class that instead of DPS/Tanking it was maybe DPS/Healing to go along with the potm idea.

For fuck's sake man all I said was we already had a priest class and you jump down my fucking throat. A PotM if we are to go by War3 was a class that was good at ranged damage and support -- considering that a hunter already gets the aura, not to mention the pet, and starfall is given to druids (or ne priests? whatever) whats left for a PotM class? DKs worked with the aura (Unholy), and even some of the other skills (Death Coil)

PotM is a stupid idea, it's too NE specific:

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Originally Posted by WWiki
The elite, night elf clergy are made up of these worthy women. The fearless leaders of the Sentinel army, the Priestesses of the Moon, or Priestesses of Elune, epitomize the power and grace of their race's ancient Moon Goddess, Elune. The Priestesses, equipped with silvery, glowing armor, ride the fearless Frostsaber tigers of Winterspring into battle. Charged with the safekeeping of the night elf lands and armed with magical energy bows the Priestesses will stop at nothing to rid their ancient land of evil.
They just don't work universally, and wouldn't work for Horde at all.

Besides I want to see goblins as a playable race dammit. (or pandas <3)
 
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Old 01-16-2009
 
#22
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awefully hostile aren't you? geez GA.
I'm sorry, I just found it to be a ridiculously worthless comment with which you were flippantly attempting to invalidate my statement. I can understand if you have something to say, but if you're going to say that I have a bad idea and then list the reason as "we already has", I think that you're assuming that I'm so stupid as to accept that "reasoning" as anything other than a waste of time. Not to mention that I correctly interpreted your tone, which has repeated the theme "your idea is stupid, because my giant double standard doesn't like it".
Quote:
The point was that we have a priest class. a POTM hero class would be stupid. The point being that the what they did with Death Knights are interesting -- since they can DPS or Tank in either tree or spec. It would be interesting to see another hero class that instead of DPS/Tanking it was maybe DPS/Healing to go along with the potm idea.
You see? This paragraph is a prime example of why I get irritated. You claim that a Priestess of the Moon class would be "stupid", because we have a class called "Priest". Ostensibly, the name PotM could be changed to something like "Order of the Moon" and the Priestess referred to as a "Moonenite", and the name overlap is gone. I do not understand how this very obvious, very clear logic can escape someone that can perform basic thinking processes. Saying that the roles are already fulfilled is an outright joke, they're ALL filled. Death Knights are glorified Warriors, which, by the way, can tank or DPS. So that leaves only Paladins, Druids, Tanks, and now Death Knights to tank, because apparently we needed another class that fills a tank role but we absolutely cannot possibly have another healer. Bitch, please. And DK "all stances tanking" is being fixed, so tread lightly in the vast abilities you assign them.
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For fuck's sake man all I said was we already had a priest class and you jump down my fucking throat. A PotM if we are to go by War3 was a class that was good at ranged damage and support -- considering that a hunter already gets the aura, not to mention the pet, and starfall is given to druids (or ne priests? whatever) whats left for a PotM class? DKs worked with the aura (Unholy), and even some of the other skills (Death Coil)
I trust that the game designers aren't as banal and uncreative as you. Not to mention that you seem to neglect that Warlocks already had the Death Coil (OH MY FUCKING GOD SOMEONE ALREADY HAS IT WE CAN'T DO THAT NOT ALLOWED NOPE DELETE THE SKILL DKS ARE "STUPID").
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PotM is a stupid idea, it's too NE specific They just don't work universally, and wouldn't work for Horde at all.
Sort of like Death Knights wouldn't work for Alliance? Right. Everything above you claim is a deal-breaker was done when they incorporated DKs.

Face it, the only thing that makes it a "stupid" idea is that you say it's "stupid", but cannot show how or why it's anything that hasn't been done before (that you like). If you dislike my idea based on "flavor" items you like or dislike, obviously anybody can say "I don't like PotMs" and I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't like them, either. But if I were asked what the next hero class would be, that would 100% be my pick. Because they'd want to populate the server with healers (now that it's flooded with tanks). After they've got healers, tanks, and dual specs, everybody can perform dual roles and ostensibly fill any group quickly. Which is a constant complaint from the pugs, that they can't get groups because everybody wants to DPS.

But when you say shit like "what's your problem all I said was your idea is stupid", or "why would they make a PotM they don't do anything but ride around on tigers with big tits" don't sit there and pretend like someone should just nod and smile like you've got a valid point.
 

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Old 01-16-2009
 
#23
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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
I'm sorry, I just found it to be a ridiculously worthless comment with which you were flippantly attempting to invalidate my statement. I can understand if you have something to say, but if you're going to say that I have a bad idea and then list the reason as "we already has", I think that you're assuming that I'm so stupid as to accept that "reasoning" as anything other than a waste of time. Not to mention that I correctly interpreted your tone, which has repeated the theme "your idea is stupid, because my giant double standard doesn't like it".
But it's fine for you to spout off with some half-ass comment about whatever you feel someone is wrong about?

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
You see? This paragraph is a prime example of why I get irritated. You claim that a Priestess of the Moon class would be "stupid", because we have a class called "Priest". Ostensibly, the name PotM could be changed to something like "Order of the Moon" and the Priestess referred to as a "Moonenite", and the name overlap is gone. I do not understand how this very obvious, very clear logic can escape someone that can perform basic thinking processes.
In darnassus the quintessential PotM is sitting RIGHT NEXT TO THE PRIEST/ESS TRAINER. The point was that a PotM is too associated with the CURRENT priest/ess class as it is. Regardless that Undead have priests or not is sort of beside the point -- I was simply trying to point out that in the lore surrounding WoW and PotMs that a "Priestess of the Moon" working out for anything but a Night Elf would be a really half ass attempt at a hero class.

It's like you're taking some kind of a personal insult that I didn't jump at this potm idea and laud it as an awesome idea.

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Saying that the roles are already fulfilled is an outright joke, they're ALL filled. Death Knights are glorified Warriors, which, by the way, can tank or DPS. So that leaves only Paladins, Druids, Tanks, and now Death Knights to tank, because apparently we needed another class that fills a tank role but we absolutely cannot possibly have another healer. Bitch, please. And DK "all stances tanking" is being fixed, so tread lightly in the vast abilities you assign them.
I never said roles were fulfilled. Blizzard themselves have stated quite a few times they like the way that DKs ended up being able to tank or dps regardless of the spec (though granted some specs are better suited). If they're truly going to "fix" this so a DK can't tank regardless of spec'ing into Unholy/Frost/Blood then wtf was the point of the class in the first place?

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
I trust that the game designers aren't as banal and uncreative as you. Not to mention that you seem to neglect that Warlocks already had the Death Coil (OH MY FUCKING GOD SOMEONE ALREADY HAS IT WE CAN'T DO THAT NOT ALLOWED NOPE DELETE THE SKILL DKS ARE "STUPID").
What the hell are you talking about? Death Knights worked specifically because some of their skills, and associations (eg: ghouls, unholy aura, death coil) weren't truly in the game. If I understand it correctly DC from a DK can even heal his ghoul as it could in War3. The point about PotMs were that most of their skills (minus the owl maybe?) have already been duplicated either exactly or even to a more specific degree -- the aura, the pet, hell even Starfall.

To introduce a Hero Class that is centered specifically around Night Elf lore (Regardless of what you would call it) would be folly. What self-respecting horde is going to want to roll a potm-class?

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Sort of like Death Knights wouldn't work for Alliance? Right. Everything above you claim is a deal-breaker was done when they incorporated DKs.
It must be nice to just ignore and simultaneously use the lore of the game to try to make a point. We already know that undead can, and have, broke free from Lich King. Why does having DKs in the game negate anything I said? How the fuck exactly is an elite sisterhood of the night elves going to except the undead or even the gnomes into their ranks?

I'm still not happy that Taurens or Night Elves can be made Death Knights but the idea, I suppose, was to show that anyone could be seduced by the lich king and bent to serve his will.

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Face it, the only thing that makes it a "stupid" idea is that you say it's "stupid", but cannot show how or why it's anything that hasn't been done before (that you like). If you dislike my idea based on "flavor" items you like or dislike, obviously anybody can say "I don't like PotMs" and I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't like them, either. But if I were asked what the next hero class would be, that would 100% be my pick.
clearly you have a fetish for potms.

srsly d00d.

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
Because they'd want to populate the server with healers (now that it's flooded with tanks). After they've got healers, tanks, and dual specs, everybody can perform dual roles and ostensibly fill any group quickly. Which is a constant complaint from the pugs, that they can't get groups because everybody wants to DPS.
Personally I always thought the tank shortage was always an issue because of the little undocumented features and shit you have to know to actually tank. It always seemed to me though that it was more along the lines of tanking being more difficult then dpsing. Healing will always take a certain kind of player, one willing to support, rather then dish the actual damage. Ah well.

That or DKs were just an attempt to court the xbox crowd.

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Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
But when you say shit like "what's your problem all I said was your idea is stupid", or "why would they make a PotM they don't do anything but ride around on tigers with big tits" don't sit there and pretend like someone should just nod and smile like you've got a valid point.
wtf does tigers or boobs have to do with anything? Your fetish with the PotM aside, it's just a bad idea. The Death Knight hero class actually works because... it fucking works. We already knew that the undead could break free from the Lich King (Forsaken, Sylvanas in particular), on top of that we knew the lore surrounding the Ashbringer, and we also knew that certain Death Knights retained a marginal level of personality, if not out right free will (otherwise what good is a knight that can't think?). The starting area for the Death Knight is one of the coolest things blizzard has ever added to the game. The music, the quests, the storyline that slowly unfolds. I'm just sad that I never got a chance to actually follow the ashbringer story from the beginning -- otherwise I'm sure the final scene would've made more of an impact.

Your retort to my saying that a Hero Class centered on a PotM being ill advised to throw death knights back at me -- the truth is that if we're going to get into the technicalities of warcraft, then Arch Druids might be a better choice. They could even start in the Emerald Dream helping to fight the Nightmare with Malfurion. The Death Knights were associated with the Lich King, a very powerful being in the WC universe. It simply makes sense that then we would progress to Malfurion and some type of 'uber druid' (or even Keeper of the Grove, though for all intents and purposes the Druid fulfills this roll completely anyway).

But again it's too alliance centric. My idea of an arch druid class could work, mostly because the Taurens have druids as well, but the truth is that Malfurion and Cenarious were unquestionably closer to the Night Elves... and we run into the same problem.

Honestly though, I want Blizzard to focus on the content for now. While a new Hero Class would be nifty, there is so much in WoW that is just left hanging. What the hell is going on in Gilneas, Grim Batol, or over near Kul Tiras? Will we actually explore the goblin city, "south seas" or whatever? Would it really kill them to just reopen Mt Hyjal?

At the least if we do see a south-seas expansion then tanaris is the perfect spot for getting there from -- it already has "Steamwheedle Port". Ah well.

Anyone come across Muradin's fate yet? I thought that was pretty cool. btw i'm super tired. i crit'ed for rambling +39
 

Last edited by Neo; 01-16-2009 at 10:12 PM. Reason: i has dirty mouth that requires cleaning, i sorry
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Old 01-16-2009
 
#24
United States GenocideAlive
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ok tl;dr.

that's fucking ridiculous.
 
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Old 01-17-2009
 
#25
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MURADIN BITCH D:

he's so cool.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#26
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I used to say wtb blademaster. But when they made it plausible to add two handed swords in one hand? Mmm.

All I'm asking for is stealth, mirror image, and pages of whining.

Warriors are my favorite. Have been since pre-bc when I begged my RL friends to let me play their tanks/DPS warriors and they could play my warlock. A blademaster would answer my prayers.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#27
United States GenocideAlive
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I like Warriors a lot too, I was going to roll one for WotLK.

Unfortunately, though, plate/melee is just waaaaayyy to prevalent for play right now. You'd never be able to find raids or groups because you're competing with the other 9,000 FOTM bandwagon jumpers.
 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
#28
BlizzForums Neo
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I've been considering rolling a healer, wavering between another druid (mainly for gathering stuff -- SFF is just leet) or possibly rolling a Pally or Priest. Though a Paladin is something I've always wanted to roll just never really done it.
 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
#29
United States GenocideAlive
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I've always wanted to roll a Pally too, but there's no way I'm jumping on that FOTM bandwagon. In fact, I've been thinking that I should roll a PRIEST, because they have mass dispel, which totally fucks pallies HARD.

However, eventually the PvP reality of being a priest healer hit me, and I realized I should just be a shaman--priest with mail. Win/Win.
 
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