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Old 02-01-2009
 
#16
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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
To those against co-op: you do realize most campaigns are made for solo play, with the option to co-op only if you want to, right??
When I play a story-driven single player campaign, I want it to be as entertaining as it possibly can be for one player. Which means I don't want every mission to give me a computer-owned ally substituting for a player because I choose to play alone.

Now if Blizzard wants to make two versions of their single-player campaign, with two different stories, as long as the single player version doesn't suffer, I couldn't care less. Or if they want to make a stand-alone campaign with co-op mode that has nothing to do with the standard campaign, I don't care either.

But the moment what I'm looking for starts to suffer in the entertainment category for any reason, I'm going to start caring.
 
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Old 02-01-2009
 
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It'd be nice to see for a mini-campaign involving Protoss and/or Zerg in WoL, since Blizzard do plan on doing those. If they have free time


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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
To those against co-op: you do realize most campaigns are made for solo play, with the option to co-op only if you want to, right??
Actually, I disagree. I think most well designed co-op campaigns are specifically designed with co-operation in mind (so as to utilize and actually take advantage of player interaction) with options later put in to compensate for those who don't. Either way, co-op eventually becomes an important factor on how fun the game is as a whole and those who don't are missing out. By definition, those who don't actually utilize co-op play aren't getting the full experience.

I'm not saying co-op is a bad idea or shouldn't be utilized. What I'm saying is that it significantly alters the way the game is played as well as its appeal. So, to implement it in an expansion pack is neither a good idea nor fair to the player (since in order to complete the story, s/he is forced to do something s/he hadn't originally expected to need to). Now, had Wings of Liberty originally contained co-op play, then it would be.fine.
 

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Actually, I disagree. I think most well designed co-op campaigns are specifically designed with co-operation in mind (so as to utilize and actually take advantage of player interaction) with options later put in to compensate for those who don't. Either way, co-op eventually becomes an important factor on how fun the game is as a whole and those who don't are missing out. By definition, those who don't actually utilize co-op play aren't getting the full experience.

I'm not saying co-op is a bad idea or shouldn't be utilized. What I'm saying is that it significantly alters the way the game is played as well as its appeal. So, to implement it in an expansion pack is neither a good idea nor fair to the player (since in order to complete the story, s/he is forced to do something s/he hadn't originally expected to need to). Now, had Wings of Liberty originally contained co-op play, then it would be.fine.
If it's going to give the option, I certainly want it in there. As far I'm concerned, Blizzard should not hold back. If this game is going to be as multi-facted as I think it will, having the option will not water-down the single-player campaign play at all. My experience is that I have enough friends who have desired such a feature that it would be just as much fun for me to have the option. However, don't hold your breath on this Co-Op stuff, don't think it's happenin regardless of what yah hear now. Have a nice day.
 
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Old 02-02-2009
 
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I've said this like a jillion times in the past and I still think it's the best option: for a co-op mode, it'd be like the "team melee" mode in StarCraft, where multiple people control one player. There's no need to have multiple players on the map that might/might not be there.

All Blizzard needs to do to have "co-op" is to enable this gameplay mode (which would be fun in & of itself) and make the campaign playable online.
 
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Old 02-02-2009
 
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I think it'd be better to make the co-op campaign as a bonus campaign rather than try and stuff all your eggs into one basket. Firstly, it would be save Blizzard from having to justify the presence of a second character who is constantly competing with or second guessing Zeratul's (a.k.a. the player's) decisions. Secondly, it doesn't force players to play online to have the full campaign experience (if the co-op feature is of any contribution, not using it would be a reduction by definition). Finally, there'd be the nightmare of figuring out how to work the two players into Story Mode.

The way I see it, a bonus campaign featuring co-op could forgo Story Mode and be made simply by pitting the two players against one another either to achieve the same objective or to see who can achieve their objective first. Depending who has more wins, there could be slightly different endings.
 
 

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Just to give one example of why co-op works for Starcraft:

Eye of the Storm (Final Protoss Mission)
 

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Originally Posted by Archerofaiur View Post
Just to give one example of why co-op works for Starcraft:

Eye of the Storm (Final Protoss Mission)
So now because it works for that type of scenario, we're going to what, make every mission in the campaign work the same way?

Cause if we're not, I don't see how bringing up one example in which it can work is of any use at all. There's plenty of examples in which it doesn't work such as RPG-missions where you control only a small force, or missions where there's only one character, or missions where there's only one base... you don't see me listing them off.
 
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Old 02-02-2009
 
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With the approach Blizzard is taking with SC2, it's definitely going to be a lot harder to implement co-op.
 
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Old 02-02-2009
 
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With the approach Blizzard is taking with SC2, it's definitely going to be a lot harder to implement co-op.

"The protoss campaign will be based on diplomacy as the protoss factions splinter.The player will work with different protoss tribes and sects, helping leaders of some sects which will anger others."
(Source: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Prot...cy_of_the_Void)

Keep in mind a full co-op caimpaign would only be for one expansion pack not the terran or zerg games. It also doesn't nessesarily have to be that every mission is coop either.


There are allot of creative missions you can do with two players. On RPG maps you can have both players taking different paths (gears of war style). You can have missions where one player has to defend against a surrounding army and another needs to break through to his resque. You can have missions where one player controls air units and another ground forces. missions where one player captures objectives that help the other player complete a goal etc...
 

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Keep in mind a full co-op caimpaign would only be for one expansion pack not the terran or zerg games. It also doesn't nessesarily have to be that every mission is coop either.
Bolded for emphasis. Two players start the campaign, the first mission is co-op, great. Then the second one isn't -- so what, the one to finish first has to wait 20 minutes while the slower one catches up, so they can start the third?

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There are allot of creative missions you can do with two players. On RPG maps you can have both players taking different paths (gears of war style). You can have missions where one player has to defend against a surrounding army and another needs to break through to his resque. You can have missions where one player controls air units and another ground forces. missions where one player captures objectives that help the other player complete a goal etc...
Um, and what exactly happens to all of these maps if the player decides to play them alone?
 
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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Bolded for emphasis. Two players start the campaign, the first mission is co-op, great. Then the second one isn't -- so what, the one to finish first has to wait 20 minutes while the slower one catches up, so they can start the third?



Um, and what exactly happens to all of these maps if the player decides to play them alone?

Depends. There are allot of ways you can structure these types of caimpaigns. For one you can have player #2 do a second but related singleplayer mission. In this way you could have player one play the light templar caimpagin and the second player play the dark templar caimpaign with intersecting missions. (This adds replayability btw).

So you go get the uraj crystal while i get the khalis and then we will meet back at the Xel'naga temple. You can also set it up so that the player doesn't have to wait 20 min for the other player to finish. They can play it on there own or if its through battle.net jump straight to the third mission with another player.

As far as playing them alone. You can control both sides like in Eye of the storm or you can go with an AI or the mission could be structured differently. Cmon guys stretch that cranial muscle. These arn't hard game design problems.
 

Last edited by Archerofaiur; 02-02-2009 at 10:28 PM.

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Originally Posted by Archerofaiur View Post
Depends. There are allot of ways you can structure these types of caimpaigns. For one you can have player #2 do a second but related singleplayer mission. In this way you could have player one play the light templar caimpagin and the second player play the dark templar caimpaign with intersecting missions. (This adds replayability btw).

So you go get the uraj crystal while i get the khalis and then we will meet back at the Xel'naga temple. You can also set it up so that the player doesn't have to wait 20 min for the other player to finish. They can play it on there own or if its through battle.net jump straight to the third mission with another player.
Nah. I want it all. I'd rather be the one getting the Uraj and the Khalis. Maybe it's just ego, but I'm used to a single player campaign. I also don't want to end up with (as a possible example) two people playing Resurrection IV, the terran player wants to get all the bonus units while the protoss player wants to go straight to Stukov. (And then, if we team up at the end, we're getting in each others' way, etc.)

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As far as playing them alone. You can control both sides like in Eye of the storm or you can go with an AI or the mission could be structured differently. Cmon guys stretch that cranial muscle. These arn't hard game design problems.
It feels like veterancy. Maybe you can actually make it not suck, but is it worth it?
 

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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Nah. I want it all. I'd rather be the one getting the Uraj and the Khalis.

You do know that in Wings of Liberty you are going to have to choose between one mission or another right?
 

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Old 02-02-2009
 
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You do know that in Wings of Liberty you are going to have to choose between one mission or another right?
That's not a problem. And from what I've seen, "alternate" missions are rare, if nonexistent.

See here: http://sclegacy.com/features/blizzco...y/IMG_0061.jpg

Note how, when the big split at the top occurs, one of the missions is an optional mission. (I guess that's Monlyth.) This suggestions you can rescue Dr. Hanson, and then go do Monlyth (the latter is not urgent).
 

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