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Old 10-04-2008
 
#1
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Default So how is America at the Moment & what is the Solution?

Well sit down and actually take a good look of how life in America is at the moment.

You get:
- The mortgage crisis, with millions of American families losing their homes.
- Crisis on Wall Street, the DJIA experiencing the largest single day point decline in history.
- Middle class hard working American families going into debt, not being able to afford quality health care, and hard working people losing out on pensions and retirement.
- This never ending war in Iraq, costing 10 billion dollars every month.
- The largest national debt in history. Oh, and lets add on another 700 billion dollars to that, for this "bailout" bill.
- Rising gas prices, forcing people to cut back on driving, or switch to public transportation entirely.
- Major financial institutions going under, or having to be bought out.
- Companies and many small businesses going under, resulting in a rising unemployment rate.
- Poorly ranked public education system, with the failing No Child Left Behind policy, and school's having to constantly cut back due to budget or funding issues.
- Americans being forced to go into other countries for medical procedures, due to not being able to afford health insurance.

I don't think life in America is looking all to well at the moment. I say the past 8 years have been a bunch of failed policies.

So what is the Solution SD? Discuss.
 
 

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Old 10-04-2008
 
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The eight past years have had many bad policies. The next four will have much worse under President Obama.
 
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Old 10-04-2008
 
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Quote:
The mortgage crisis, with millions of American families losing their homes.
What? If millions of American families were losing their homes there would be a revolution. That would be tens of millions of people without homes.

Quote:
- Crisis on Wall Street, the DJIA experiencing the largest single day point decline in history.
The entire world financial system is in crisis.

Quote:
- Middle class hard working American families going into debt, not being able to afford quality health care, and hard working people losing out on pensions and retirement.
It's they're own fault they're going into debt.

As for the rest, and?

I reject your statement that middle class Americans are not able to afford quality health care in numbers that constitute a crisis, and the same for pensions and retirement.

Quote:
- This never ending war in Iraq, costing 10 billion dollars every month.
You mean that war that everyone said we lost that we then won? We're going to be gone entirely by 2012 and have significantly less troops there by summer of next year.

Quote:
- The largest national debt in history. Oh, and lets add on another 700 billion dollars to that, for this "bailout" bill.
Do not re-elect a single Democrat incumbent or elect a single Democrat candidate and do not re-elect about 75% of incumbent Republicans in Congress and you'll solve that one pretty easy.

Quote:
- Rising gas prices, forcing people to cut back on driving, or switch to public transportation entirely.
I haven't seen the rest of the developed world get fragged by gas prices that used to be anywhere from 3 to 6 times higher than ours and are now "only" 2 to 3 times higher.

Elect Republicans who will take off the restrictions government has placed on energy generation.

Quote:
- Major financial institutions going under, or having to be bought out.
That's what happens when the government tinkers with the free market. Elect Republicans and you won't have this happening.

Quote:
- Companies and many small businesses going under, resulting in a rising unemployment rate.
Elect Republicans.

Quote:
- Poorly ranked public education system, with the failing No Child Left Behind policy, and school's having to constantly cut back due to budget or funding issues.
Elect Republicans so we can have school choice.

Quote:
- Americans being forced to go into other countries for medical procedures, due to not being able to afford health insurance.
I want some proof of that, and Michael Moore publicity stunts don't count. Foreigners, particularly Canadians, are the ones coming here because their health care systems blow.

Quote:
I don't think life in America is looking all to well at the moment.
I would disagree.

Quote:
I say the past 8 years have been a bunch of failed policies.
There have been a lot of successful ones too, too bad the failed ones were in areas that mattered more.

The solution to all of these problems, which are all political problems, caused by bad politics, is to kick out almost all of the current membership of Congress and elect the new generation of Republican candidates who are leading the charge to bring the GOP back to its small-government roots.

Oh, and continue to slowly economically strangle the old media to death by going to new media for your news. American journalism is a perverted beast that has done as much to harm this country as anything else, and it needs one right between the eyes. ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, Time, Newsweek, The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, all of them. They all need to be destroyed. Not a single one of them, or 90% of the rest of the old media in this country, does anything even close to real journalism. They have pounded Americans for two decades and more with nothing but negativity.
 

Last edited by Chaos; 10-05-2008 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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Why don't you just edit that last post and save the guy some reading with "Elect Republicans" as a catch all to every question he asked?
 
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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Electing Republicans who commit to cutting spending and taxation, and lessening regulation - and then follow through - literally is the solution to all those problems, except Iraq, and that problem has already been solved. By Republicans.

There isn't an economist out there - save maybe Paul Krugman - who thinks that an Obama Administration with a Democrat-dominated Congress won't mean a very long and harsh recession.
 
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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Electing Republicans who commit to cutting spending and taxation, and lessening regulation - and then follow through - literally is the solution to all those problems, except Iraq, and that problem has already been solved. By Republicans.
Republicans saved Iraq...I will be sure to let my CO know why things have gotten better in Iraq so he can inform the company next time because he was misinformed, thanks!
 
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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Being facetious is good, I like that.

Up in the north things are still being cleared and Diyala is still not pacified to any good degree but they wouldn't be doing the things they're doing if it wasn't going well. Being completely gone in three years, on our terms more or less, is amazing considering what the expected end was in 2006. And it wouldn't have happened if Republicans hadn't stood fast in 2007.
 
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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Being facetious is good, I like that.

Up in the north things are still being cleared and Diyala is still not pacified to any good degree but they wouldn't be doing the things they're doing if it wasn't going well. Being completely gone in three years, on our terms more or less, is amazing considering what the expected end was in 2006. And it wouldn't have happened if Republicans hadn't stood fast in 2007.
Your ability to give Republicans credit for victories that are entirely due to the commanders on the ground is beyond amazing. What exactly have the Republicans or politicians in general done that gives them any credit for the successes gained in Iraq? The surge? I guess if not listening to the commanders in the first place when they asked for more troops, and then later on realizing they were correct to begin with counts then WAY TO GO BOYS!

The real reason I was being facetious is because your statement was such a dramatic oversimplication of what has happened in Iraq that it donates either dishonesty or ignorance. Either way is there really any point in attempting a serious discussion with someone who is so shameless when it comes to giving credit to people who largely had very little do with said accomplishment? Leave it up to you to take something so removed from partisan politics as actual success on a battlefield, and turn it in to a democratics vs. republicans topic. Fucking bravo.
 
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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I think that's what Chaos meant. President Bush has repeatedly stated he will not let policy dictate the situation on the ground. Republicans traditionally have a better tradition of listening to the armed forces (gosh, maybe those war-crazy generals know what they're talking about!) than Democrats (i.e. Johnson in the Vietnam War) Because the President listened to the military, the gains were made which we enjoy today.

Now if he had only done that five years ago...

 
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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Originally Posted by Philosoraptor View Post
I think that's what Chaos meant. President Bush has repeatedly stated he will not let policy dictate the situation on the ground. Republicans traditionally have a better tradition of listening to the armed forces (gosh, maybe those war-crazy generals know what they're talking about!) than Democrats (i.e. Johnson in the Vietnam War) Because the President listened to the military, the gains were made which we enjoy today.

Now if he had only done that five years ago...
He doesn't really need you to defend him. I am not really expecting a response that is coherent, and to engage with him in this discussion is already an act of futility because he is beyond stubborn. I will lay out the future of this discussion for you since its a run around I already know. Chaos will come in and likely claim something to the effect of what you said in an attempt to back up his claim. Since once you know the mind of Chaos it is beyond his nature to ever admit that his statement was flawed in some way. This will lead to several posts of personal attacks coupled with eventually pushing the topic to something else altogether along with arguing over semantics. Pretty much either the topic will go somewhere else, or I will just get really bored of hearing the same load of crap worded differently and let it die.

Already we are off topic...my bad.

It was obvious from the start that once we got in Iraq we wouldn't be leaving anytime soon since we have a military presence in nearly every country we have ever invaded. Democrats alone couldn't garner enough support from their own side to stop funding for the war, and while it is true that more voices from the Republicans were saying "stay the course" it is pretty much entirely incorrect to give them complete credit for success on the ground. If that were the case then it would be just as fair to say that they hold blame for any failures as well. Really I just find it as another case of people trying to take more credit for something than what they deserve when it reality many people had a part to play. Hell you could give a lot of the credit to the Iraqis themselves, because AlQeada has done much to alienate themselves via their batshit insane tactics, and as a result the civilian populace has turned on them.
 

Last edited by ShadowFox; 10-05-2008 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 10-05-2008
 
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There are Democrats who voted against the bailout. Very many republicans voted for it. To say something is simple as "vote for republicans only" is stupid. Voting solely along party lines is stupid.

As far as the economic crash is concerned, it is my understanding that these problems occurred because of excessive deregulation. A free market also has to be a fair market. It shouldn't have been so easy for banks to trick people into taking predatory loans. A lot of people say that government intervention caused the economic crash. I don't understand, can someone explain it to me please?
 
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Old 10-06-2008
 
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There are Democrats who voted against the bailout. Very many republicans voted for it. To say something is simple as "vote for republicans only" is stupid. Voting solely along party lines is stupid.
The vast majority of democrats who didn't vote for the bailout didn't do so because they felt there wasn't enough pork to go along with it on projects and measures that have nothing to do with the current financial crisis at all.
 
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Old 10-06-2008
 
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The vast majority of democrats who didn't vote for the bailout didn't do so because they felt there wasn't enough pork to go along with it on projects and measures that have nothing to do with the current financial crisis at all.
What a nonsensical theory.
 
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Old 10-06-2008
 
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http://www.taxpayer.net/resources.ph...nes%20By%20TCS
 
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Old 10-06-2008
 
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There are Democrats who voted against the bailout. Very many republicans voted for it. To say something is simple as "vote for republicans only" is stupid. Voting solely along party lines is stupid.

As far as the economic crash is concerned, it is my understanding that these problems occurred because of excessive deregulation. A free market also has to be a fair market. It shouldn't have been so easy for banks to trick people into taking predatory loans. A lot of people say that government intervention caused the economic crash. I don't understand, can someone explain it to me please?
But the fact still remains that 65% of the yeas were from Democrats, you can't deny it. Hell here's a Link. The only reason it looks like so many democrats voted no is because simply, way more of them were given the opportunity to vote on the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. Now I'm not saying that Chaos is right, hell it's definitely a very slanted post, and yes the republicans voted about 45% yea 55% nay so its not fair to say that they didn't help push this through. But to argue that a lot of democrats voted against it is ridiculous, 63 out of 235 democratic members is not a lot.
 
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