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Old 11-30-2008
 
#31
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They are stuck in these ideologies developed in the 50's and 60's that life is only what you make it for yourself. The baby boomers and their descendants got all comfortable because they enjoyed a new age of progress and now our culture is suffering. It's what we see as the American dream after all.

Tesla died with debt still hanging over his head.

So the attitude remains: "let the guy with the glasses and the lab coat make the progress."
 

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Old 11-30-2008
 
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Originally Posted by Adovid View Post
They are stuck in these ideologies developed in the 50's and 60's that life is only what you make it for yourself. The baby boomers and their descendants got all comfortable because they enjoyed a new age of progress and now our culture is suffering. It's what we see as the American dream after all.

Tesla died with debt still hanging over his head.

So the attitude remains: "let the guy with the glasses and the lab coat make the progress."
Can you elaborate on this, I'm not entirely clear on what your main idea is.
 
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Old 12-01-2008
 
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Areese, you are wrong, period.
Good start! Let's see how much you defend that statement.

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Now stop bothering me with that rubbish. We're not living in 1950, we're in 2008. I'd say over 90% of the complete fucking failures at school these days (at the very least here in California) is completely because of the lack of personal responsibility. End of story.
So in 1950 it was all society? Wait, 90%? So 10% is society? Let's just play with these pulled-from-your-ass numbers. So because of that supposed 90% personal responsibility factor, we should fuck over the remaining 10% if they fail? This is hardly an argument and I KNOW you can make arguments (long ones, too). Instead, we get a Hawaiin-esque "end of story" line.

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Yes, segregation and racism did play a major role in our failing public school system at one time, but if you are by any means suggesting that that is the major reason for the problems we're facing, or that either we as a society or out government can really "do something" about it, you're deluded.
I'm deluded? If you believe the fallout of segregation and racism (and current segregation and racist policies- oh, they exist, hiddent as "natural") has no effect on the current education system, YOU are seriously deluded. Segregation put blacks in poor areas, encouraged seperation of families, demonized a race, placed a culture of limitations (as in they couldn't succeed no matter how hard they tried), and generally locked them down at the bottom of the economic spectrum. All that's different is that the lock is gone (weights, however, are still there). And these factors played a role AFTER segregation was "over", obviously. And the fact that blacks are in poor areas with much ignored crime problems plays a HUGE role in how they are educated. Don't give me that bull, man.

Again, this is but the South, many of these observations from my home city. Is CA like this? Not quite, as the South is such a unique breed. But my point was not to produce a universal societal blame factor or something. It was an EXAMPLE of a certain region (a large one at that). The point was that you can't just slap personal responsibility on everything.

Again, what's your stance on vouchers? I'm curious.

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And yes, I believe an apathetic 15 year old should be left to fail.
So he's part of the 90% yes? Just making sure...
 
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Obama has won. The seas of change are flooding the streets- a deluge of possibility, a monsoon of opportunity, a literal tsunami of inspiration. We're talking hope. And the only thing left to do is to put on some swimming trunks, maybe a pair of goggles, and just riiiide the wave...

And a major pox on that bastard Jeph Loeb. Everything you touch dies.
 

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Old 12-01-2008
 
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Not to sound like a racist, but one factor for why I voted for Obama this year is because I think (hope is really the word I'm looking for) he might have the ability to impact young black youths. It seems like all they have to look up to are gangster rappers and football players. And no, not all blacks, but you know the ones I'm talking about. Especially the high schoolers and middle schoolers man some of them are just terrible. One idiot showed up to a job interview wearing his pants around his knees, I wanted to slap him.

I think we might see a new generation of independent-minded young blacks, who aren't afraid to sound smart and be accused by others of "acting white." I'm not gonna lie, all my black friends are smart, and don't sound like dumbass gangster rappers. I've heard the dishwashers talk shit about some too like calling him milk chocolate and shit like that. But you know what? He's going somewhere in life, and you're not! Barrack Obama will be a positive influence on the black community.
 
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Old 12-01-2008
 
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Not to sound like a racist, but one factor for why I voted for Obama this year is because I think (hope is really the word I'm looking for) he might have the ability to impact young black youths. It seems like all they have to look up to are gangster rappers and football players. And no, not all blacks, but you know the ones I'm talking about. Especially the high schoolers and middle schoolers man some of them are just terrible. One idiot showed up to a job interview wearing his pants around his knees, I wanted to slap him.
I know what you mean. And one of the points I made earlier was about a culture of limitations, about how, especially in the South, blacks were presented w/ very few opportunities for success. While those opportunities have expanded, both blacks and whites are still either in the culture or producing it.

Football players and rappers were basically seen as "easy" tickets to success, in that they were not denied by whites. It's part of the culture.

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I think we might see a new generation of independent-minded young blacks, who aren't afraid to sound smart and be accused by others of "acting white." I'm not gonna lie, all my black friends are smart, and don't sound like dumbass gangster rappers. I've heard the dishwashers talk shit about some too like calling him milk chocolate and shit like that. But you know what? He's going somewhere in life, and you're not! Barrack Obama will be a positive influence on the black community.
I hope Obama will, I really do. But I also hope Obama is not seen as representative of the black community, just Bush is not seen represntative as the white community (though to much the world, the American community). Of course, when do whites ever feel they have to represent their own race?

And I think that generation is coming, but, alas, it's, as I say, more than just a mindset of personal responsibility. I mean, Obama had well-to-do grandparents which I'm sure Helped, though his personal abilities were what eventually propelled him, obviously. But with that culture of limitations and many economic issues, we can't just rely on a new mindset.
 
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Obama has won. The seas of change are flooding the streets- a deluge of possibility, a monsoon of opportunity, a literal tsunami of inspiration. We're talking hope. And the only thing left to do is to put on some swimming trunks, maybe a pair of goggles, and just riiiide the wave...

And a major pox on that bastard Jeph Loeb. Everything you touch dies.
 

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Old 12-01-2008
 
#36
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Can you elaborate on this, I'm not entirely clear on what your main idea is.
My main idea is what I said at the end-- its the perception of the many people to let the person with the glasses and the lab coat make the progress. That science is for nerds.

The average American doesn't see themselves filling the role of inventor or even as an entrepreneur. Its too risky. Most people want to either be happy by themselves or successful in a way that contributes to their personal gain. There are the occasional people who have the determination to contribute but for a lot of people their idea is that "it just isn't for me".

The reason is like I said. We don't feel the social pressure to make progress because we have been enjoying the progress that has already been happening without the effort of the masses.
 

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Old 12-01-2008
 
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The reason is like I said. We don't feel the social pressure to make progress because we have been enjoying the progress that has already been happening without the effort of the masses.
OK, now take your point the necessary one step further. If there was success to be had by the masses before, when just the nerds were making progress, what has changed that is disallowing that to continue now?
 
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Old 12-01-2008
 
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The average American doesn't see themselves filling the role of inventor or even as an entrepreneur. Its too risky. Most people want to either be happy by themselves or successful in a way that contributes to their personal gain. There are the occasional people who have the determination to contribute but for a lot of people their idea is that "it just isn't for me".
I like this idea, but I think also that people don't try to challenge themselves (at least some).
 
 

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Old 12-01-2008
 
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OK, now take your point the necessary one step further. If there was success to be had by the masses before, when just the nerds were making progress, what has changed that is disallowing that to continue now?
Well for one thing. If more people were willing to devote their attention to say an engineering endeavor, given the number of perspectives, there could be some amazing solution sitting in someone's head just because of the way they see things from their perspective or any life experiences.

For instance the television was invented by a fellow working on a farm who imagined the refreshing of the screen working just like how a plow goes down a field.
 

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Old 12-01-2008
 
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The real point is how many people would be apt at the field of engineering and not wasting their time?
 
 

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