9/11: By the government?(Loose Change)

[Chaos]

WTF.

Yes indeed, because it would seem that you are indeed anti-semitic. There isn't any other alternative since you insist on saying that you are not ignorant of what Zionism is.

I have a problem with the 100 years of terrorism that Zionism has been involved with in order to get where Israel is today. That terrorism sponsored by a P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L movement, called Z-I-O-N-I-S-M.

Zionism does not condone or advocate terrorism.

All mainstream Zionism is is national self-determination, Jewish style. Certainly there are radical Zionists, just as there are radicals of every political stripe.

I have NO FUCKING PROBLEM with the Jewish people. I have a problem with those that use the RELIGION as an EXCUSE to cause mass murder among innocents, regardless of their 'Just Cause'.

As Israel does not and never has mass murdered innocents, and neither has anyone expounding the cause of Zionism (besides Baruch Goldstein, who was a nut, a racist and a member of a radical far right-wing political movement banned by the Israeli government for being nutty and racist), I do not understand where you're coming from.

There are two options here Leut: you are either ignorant of Zionism or have been grossly misinformed about it, or you are an anti-semite. I say the former because I do believe you don't hate Jews, but since you insist on saying that you are knowledgable about Zionism, anti-semitism is what is left.

[Leuthesius]

What you all fail to realize is that labeling me as an "anti-semite" is exactly the same thing that Zionism has been working on for the last hundred years. You automatically assume that Judaism and Zionism are one in the same when infact they are not.

If Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic, then why do normal Jewish people like in the following link put so much up against Zionism? I mean, Zionism is Judaism according to the Zionists. But according to Jewish Anti-Zionists, that is not the case.

Zionism is a 'radical' political movement.
Judaism is a religion, and a way of life.

Pull your heads out of the sand already.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm
ANTI-SEMITISM BY POLITICAL ZIONISM

Although Zionists and others dispute it, the undeniable fact is that revolutionary secular and apostate elements in the Jewish community in Europe contributed greatly to hostility towards Jews after World War I. This aroused hatred of Jews in general among many non-Jews. While a prisoner in 1924 in the fortress of Lansberg on the River Lech, Hitler wrote his Mein Kampf. When he became Chancellor of Germany in 1933, he was assisted by Goebbels, Roseberg and Streicher. From them came the declarations, “The Jews of Germany caused the defeat of Germany in the 1914-1918 war; the Jews of Germany were responsible for the terrible conditions in Germany that followed the war; the Jews of Germany are foreigners and they wish to remain foreigners; they have no loyalty to the country of their birth; they are not human; they are filthy dogs; they have no right to intrude into Germany’s affairs; there are too many Jews in Germany.

As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl, sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls”:

“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)

Additional words from the vivid imagination of this dreamer, from p. 68 of Part I of his Diary.

So anti-Semitism, which is a deeply imbedded force in the subconscious mind of the masses, will not harm the Jews. I actually find it to be advantageous to building the Jewish character, education by the masses that will lead to assimilation. This education can only happen through suffering, and the Jews will adapt.

Hateful views of Jews as being subhuman did not have to be invented by Nazi theorists such as Hitler, Goebbels, Rosenberg and Streicher. This ideology was simply adapted from statements of political Zionists such as those found in the writings of the Zionist Yehezkel Kaufman in 1933.

In 1920 there were statements hostile to Jews expressed at Heidelberg University. These statements, arguing that Jews of Germany had caused the turmoil that followed the war; that the Jews of Germany had nothing in common with Germans, and that Germans had the right to prevent the Jews of Germany from intruding into the affairs of their volk were not made by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf, but by Nahum Goldmann, who went in to become the President of the World Zionist Organization and head of the World Jewish Congress, and, indisputably, the most influential political Zionist in the world, second only to the Prime Minister of the State of Israel.

In 1921, Germans in Germany were told that:

“We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German; whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“.

Who spoke these vile words? It was Jacob Klatzkin, the second of two political Zionist ideologists in Germany at the time, where the Jews of Germany were enjoying full political and civil rights. It was he who had advocated undermining Jewish communities as the one certain way of acquiring a state. “They had no qualms concerning tearing down the existing Jewish communities.”

Who spoke in a public address at a political Zionist meeting in Berlin and declared that “Germany… has too many Jews”? Was it Hitler or Goebbels? No, it was Chaim Weizman, later to become the first President of the State of Israel. This address was published in 1920, and, thus, four years before Hitler had even written Mein Kampf.

How many Zionist Jews know of this vicious treachery uttered by these senior political Zionist leaders, these apostates from the Jewish People? At the Nuremberg Trials of Major War Criminals, Nazi propagandist, Julius Streicher testified: “I did no more than echo what the leading Zionists had been saying”, it is clear that he had told the truth.

In addition to Hitler, Rosenberg, Goebbels and Streicher, many other Nazi leaders used statements from Zionists to validate their charges against the Jews of Germany. Such are the efforts of Zionist leaders to this very day to maintain a high degree of anti-semitism in order to enable them, in feigned horror, to then point to anti-semitism to support their idolatrous and anti-Jewish cause. In 1963, Moshe Sharett, then Chairman of the Jewish Agency, told the 38th Annual Congress of the Scandinavian Youth Federation that the freedom enjoyed by the majority of Jews imperiled Zionism, and at the 26th World Zionist Congress, the delegates were told that the Jew is endangered by the easing of anti-Semitism in the United States “We are endangered by freedom” he declared.

As we stated earlier, Zionism thrives on anti-Semitism. Ben Gurion declared, “…not always and not everywhere do I opposed anti-Semitism”. Zionists regularly pull out their handy “anti-Semite” race card against anyone, Jew or non-Jew, who dares to speak out against the wickedness of Zionism.

During World War II, the Lehi organization, an offshoot of Begin’s Irgun that was headed by Yitzchak Shamir sought an alliance with Nazis! The following is a quote from the writings of the Lehi in their contact with the Nazis:

"The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East ... The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany's side ... The cooperation of the Israeli freedom movement would also be in line with one of the recent speeches of the German Reich Chancellor, in which Herr Hitler stressed that any combination and any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it."

To those who assume that Zionists have been on the side of freedom and equality, these words seem strange. However, to those who understand the root of Zionism, which is the transformation and eradication of the concept of the traditional Jew and Judaism, these statements are not strange at all. They are to be expected.

The Zionists agreed with Nazism in general, even prior to the advent of Nazism. They believed that Jews could not, and should not, live in harmony in any other society in the world, and that should be removed from those societies for the benefit of those societies. They believed that the new Jewish existence in its own State would remake the image of Jews as “useless” and “parasites.” These ideas existed long before Adolf Hitler!

There is a huge amount of literature describing how the Zionists made it very difficult to save Jews during and after World War II. As various individuals and organizations were trying to arrange departures of Jews to western countries, the Zionists worked overtime to prevent this from happening. They expressed the opinion that building up the Jewish population of Palestine was more important than enabling Jews to go to third countries, and they insisted to western powers that Jews should not be accepted anywhere other than Palestine. Indeed, Yitzchak Greenbaum, a famous Zionist, proclaimed that “one cow in Palestine was worth more than all the Jews in Poland.” The infamous David Ben-Gurion said in 1938:

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."

After the war, a Zionist “religious” leader, Rabbi Klaussner, who was in charge of displaced persons presented a report before the Jewish American Conference on May 2nd, 1948 :

"I am convinced people must be forced to go to Palestine...For them, an American dollar appears as the highest of goals. By the word "force", I am suggesting a programme. It served for the evacuation of the Jews in Poland, and in the history of the 'Exodus'... To apply this programme we must, instead of providing 'displaced persons' with comfort, create the greatest possible discomfort for them...At a second stage, a procedure calling upon the Haganah to harass the Jews."

It is ironic that the Zionists proclaim their State as the safe haven for the Jewish People, when since World War II no place on earth has been as dangerous for Jews, both spiritually and physically, as the Zionist state.

The Zionists worked relentlessly to create fear among Jews in the Arab countries after the Zionist state was established. Their tactic work most successfully in Yemen, Morocco, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia.

It is common knowledge among Iraqi Jews that during 1949-1950 the famous Zionist, Mordechai ben Porat, who had the nickname of Morad Abu al-Knabel (Mordechai Bomber), was instrumental in seeking to bribe Iraqi officials after the creation of the Zionist state to pass laws to encourage Jews to leave Iraq. This was enhanced by the Zionists planting bombs in synagogues in Baghdad in March 1950. Information about this is readily available on the internet.

The writings of Mr. Naim Giladi document in detail what the Zionists did in Baghdad in 1950 to provoke the departure of the Jews to the Zionist state. The Zionists do not care what effect their policies have on the Jewish communities of any country. When they accuse European nations of every sin under the sun, do the Zionists care that this will produce hostility towards Jews? No! Not a bit. On the contrary, as we have discussed, they thrive on such circumstances, clinging to the vain hope that these Jewish communities will rush for the “salvation” of the “safe haven” of the Zionist Paradise where Jews are in constant danger as the Zionist regime undertakes every form of cruel provocation against non-Jews.

In more recent times the Zionists have sought every opportunity to encourage Jews to leave their home countries. Anytime there is even the smallest event of hostility toward Jews on the heels of Zionist policy, or if there are signs of economic distress and dislocation, the Zionists magnify it a thousand times, seek to ruthlessly humiliate the nations involved, and agitate for Jews to go to the Zionist state, the so-called “natural home” of the Jewish People. This has been the case in countries such as France, Argentina, Uruguay, the former Soviet Union and Egypt.

The promises of the Torah are always to be realized. This verse from the Torah demonstrates that those who are his enemies will pay a price when The kingdom of G-D will prevail.

Deuteronomy 32:43: Praise his People, O Nations: For he will avenge the blood of his servants. He will render vengeance against his adversaries and make expiation for his land and his People.

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scr...s/jdecwar.html
The war by the international Jewish leadership on Germany not only sparked definite reprisals by the German government but also set the stage for a little-known economic and political alliance between the Hitler government and the leaders of the Zionist movement who hoped that the tension between the Germans and the Jews would lead to massive emigration to Palestine. In short, the result was a tactical alliance between the Nazis and the founders of the modern-day state of Israel - a fact that many today would prefer be forgotten.

http://www.rense.com/general45/zzo.htm
TERROR BOMBING

Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain had given an assurance that:

'The British Government would never resort to the deliberate attack on women and children and other civilians for the purpose of mere terrorism.'

However, his successor Winston Churchill appointed as his personal adviser the Jewish Professor Lindemann. Lindemann, later Lord Cherwell, suggested the bombing of German cities and that working class civilian areas were legitimate targets, and from then onwards the last vestiges of civilised decency in warfare were abandoned. These bombings began on 10 August 1940 with the bombing of the small open town of Freiburg on the Swiss frontier. Fifty-three civilians were killed, including twenty children playing in the park. It was reported by Mr. Taylor of the American Red Cross in the New York Times of 3 May 1940. This was before the Germans began bombing British cities. Mr. J. M. Speight, CBE, Principal Secretary to the Air Ministry, wrote in his book The Splendid Decision:

'Adolf Hitler only undertook the bombing of British civilian targets reluctantly after the RAF had commenced bombing German civilian targets... It gave Coventry, Birmingham, Sheffield and Southampton the right to look Kiev, Kharkov, Stalingrad and Sebastopol in the face. Our Soviet allies would have been less critical of our inactivity if they had understood what we had done... Hitler would have been willing at my time to stop the slaughter. Hitler was genuinely anxious to reach with Britain an agreement confining the action of aircraft to battle zones.'

VENGEANCE

In 1941, long before there was any assembling of Jews for the supposed extermination camps, a Jew, Theodor N. Kaufman, wrote Germany Must Perish. Kaufman set out a plan for the total destruction of the German population by a very simple method: the mass sterilisation of all German men and women between the age of puberty and sixty years. He described the construction of the organisation for doing this. This book was the basis of the Morgenthau Plan for the total destruction of German industry and the enslavement of the German race. Naturally these intentions of Germany's enemy got into the hands of the German propaganda minister Goebbels, and it stiffened the resistance of the German nation to avoid defeat. The Morgenthau Plan formed the basis of discussions between President Roosevelt and Soviet leader Stalin acting through his liaison officer, the Soviet Jew Zabrousky, and also formed the basis of the Yalta Agreement.

From the same article. The jews I support. The ones that are NOT Zionist.

From a pre-1993 edition of John Tyndall's Spearhead magazine

The Heretical Press
PO Box 1004,
Hull, Yorkshire
HU3 2YT, England


Comment
From Star
12-10-3

Shalom,

It is time for all Non-Zionist Jews to cleanse the world free of Zionism or this suicide machine called Zionism will destroy all Jews.

There is an old saying by the sages, if there is smoke there is fire. First they tried to say Zionism is a lie and yet we are seeing it's results. Second they tried to bully and intimidate those who tried to expose them for what they are while carefully censoring the fact that not all jews are zionists and many jews are in fact against zionism. Third they manipulate other nations to do their bidding while falsely saying it is being done in our name which makes us vomit at their abhorrent behaviour and claim. Fourth they tried all tricks in the book to manipulate the media to spread false news, disinformation, misinformation, divertionary decoys at the expense of others.

And now they want to repeat the same mistakes that took millions of innoccent jewish lives in World War II. How many times does it take to tell these Zionist to stop adding and feeding more jewish lives into their sacrificial suicide machine called Zionism for political gain?

To all Non-Zionist Jews, save your lives by cleansing the world of Zionism before it provokes the world again against all innoccent jews. We have lost so many of our fellow Jews in World War II, we must stop them from adding our jewish and christian and muslim, etc, lives into their death machine called Zionism.

Shalom!

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060626/rose
The Zionist Imagination

Jacqueline Rose

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In 1917, after the British conquest of Palestine, the Jewish Battalion, which Vladimir Jabotinsky had campaigned for since the outbreak of World War I and which had participated in several of the battles, was allowed to rename itself the Judean Regiment. The regiment chose as its insignia a menorah with the Hebrew word "kadima," meaning "forward" or "eastward." This was not the first time Jabotinsky had used the word. Kadima was also the name of the Zionist publishing house he had founded with a group of friends in Odessa in 1904, which marked the beginning of Zionist activity throughout Russia. When, at the end of last year, Ariel Sharon left Likud to form a new party of the center-right, Kadima, a move widely welcomed as creating a fresh middle ground in Israeli politics, he was therefore paying the profoundest tribute to Jabotinsky--Likud's forefather, founder of militant Revisionist Zionism, visionary of the Jewish radical right.

After Theodor Herzl and David Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky is perhaps the most renowned figure in Zionist history, although he remains more controversial. For the Labor Zionist founders of the State of Israel, he was a pariah. He split with the Zionist Organization on the issue of Jewish self-defense (he was imprisoned by the British in 1920 for possession of firearms and for provoking disorder) and of armed struggle against the British in Palestine. He had also proclaimed that the goal of Zionism was the creation of a Jewish state, at a time when Zionist leaders preferred to keep quiet about their aims. "I, too, am for a Jewish state," one of his closest collaborators commented, "but I am against using the words." Jabotinsky was ostracized for speaking the truth. Because he recognized Arab national aspirations as legitimate, he had no interest in denying that the Zionist struggle would be violent. According to Jabotinsky, a group of Arabs approached him in 1926: "You are the only one among the Zionists who has no intention of fooling us," Egyptian intellectual Mahmoud Azmi is reported as having thanked him for not disguising the true nature of his aims.

As I write, Israel is faced with a democratically elected Hamas government, the legacy of its own brute military policies toward the Palestinians. Behind Hamas's statement that it will not recognize Israel--for which it is isolated and financially starved--we can ironically detect the shade, and perfectly logical consequence, of the ethos of Jabotinsky, who famously ended his 1923 essay "The Iron Wall": "The only path to an agreement in the future is an absolute refusal of any attempts at an agreement now." There could be no agreement or even negotiation with the Arabs until they accepted that Zionism was invincible. For Jabotinsky inflexibility was political doctrine.

There now. I have provided links and resources to support my argument. Supported by the very Jews you all think I hate.

Now step off of this Hitler Anti-Jew crap.

I am an ANTI-ZIONIST.

[Chaos]

I'll get to Leut's undoubtedly impassioned wails about the horrors of Zionism later.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...6/s1736235.htm

Yeah so is there anyone not a liar or a dumbass who really believes that Osama wasn't behind September 11th anymore?

[Golgo 13]

If Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic, then why do normal Jewish people like in the following link put so much up against Zionism? I mean, Zionism is Judaism according to the Zionists. But according to Jewish Anti-Zionists, that is not the case.

Zionism is a 'radical' political movement.
Judaism is a religion, and a way of life.

Pull your heads out of the sand already.

Naw man. It don't work like that anymore.

Kinda like how after 9/11, you can't spell Muslim without "T-E-R-R-O-R-I-S-T".

[penguin]

This is simply factually incorrect.

Jews have had a continuous presence in the Holy Land for the last 4,500 years, since the Exodus.

This is significantly longer than the amount of time that Arabs - Palestinian is a false term, created as a propaganda tool - have lived there.

Also factually incorrect is stating that the Jews "left" Palestine. Those that did not remain were forcibly evicted by the Babylonians, the Romans, Christian Crusaders, Arabs, Mamelukes, Ottoman Turks, etc., over the centuries.

The point is it happened many CENTURIES ago. Just like we're not paying black people reparations for their slave ancestors, there's no reason to kick out whoever is in Israel to make way for Jews. The only difference is no one really gets affected negatively if pay black people reparations, other than a few tax dollars.

[Leuthesius]

I'll get to Leut's undoubtedly impassioned wails about the horrors of Zionism later.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...6/s1736235.htm

Yeah so is there anyone not a liar or a dumbass who really believes that Osama wasn't behind September 11th anymore?

Welp.

That's that. You all saw it here folks. I provided evidence to support my stance, by the very people you all believe I hate. And it was henceforth ignored because someone would have to accept defeat of one type or another.

I'll say it again. Please, pull your head out of your ass.

Thanks.

[enemy-fleet]

The point is it happened many CENTURIES ago. Just like we're not paying black people reparations for their slave ancestors, there's no reason to kick out whoever is in Israel to make way for Jews. The only difference is no one really gets affected negatively if pay black people reparations, other than a few tax dollars.

did u fail to read this? ...

The Isrealis are not to blame for the loss of the palastinian homeland in the first place. For one thing the British government was the ruling body in Palestine at the time of the change over. Also, as the Isrealis prepared to enter Israel, it was the arab nations in the area who told the palastinians that it would be a good time to leave so that they could finish off the israelis and then return the land to the muslims. When Israel whiped with floor with the Arab coalition, the palestinions were left high and dry. Israel definetly has the right to exist and the palestinians should direct their anger at nations like Saudi Arabia who caused the current situations but still refuse hundreds of thousands of refuges a year from a conflict that happened half a century ago and they blame on the jews.

[PraetorKoronis]

...9/11 had nothing to do with the Palestinians.

if you think that, then you're just being paranoid.

And no, Saddam didn't have anything to do with Osama. Maybe in a long intricate chain of things they were related, but if you think about it, that means that we're all connected.

The main issue here is that terrorist groups will never lack funding, and we provide a major part of that.

How? We buy middle eastern oil. Once the money gets into that part of the world, it pretty much becomes distributed between the major terrorist groups, funding their hate towards the US. [I say we as in all countries buy OIL from that area too! But terrorists seem to focus on the US...]

[Chaos]

Welp.

That's that. You all saw it here folks. I provided evidence to support my stance, by the very people you all believe I hate. And it was henceforth ignored because someone would have to accept defeat of one type or another.

I'll say it again. Please, pull your head out of your ass.

Thanks.

I'm sorry.

See, some of us have this thing called work.

And if we don't go when we're supposed to and the manager calls and we tell that manager that we aren't there because we're fucking around on the internet, we get fired.

If we get fired, we don't have any money to buy weed and gasoline and cigarettes and alcohol and the occasional dinner and pay for the internet and the car insurance and whatnot.

So, uh, maybe you shouldn't put your foot quite so far down your throat.

Now then, tomorrow, when I don't work and when I am not out getting drunk, I'll reply.

[BrownDawg]

Googled up "Zionism" and found these definitions:

Movement founded by the Viennese Jewish journalist Theodor Herzl, who argued in his 1896 book Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) that the best way of avoiding anti-Semitism in Europe was to create an independent Jewish state in Palestine. Zionism was named after Mount Zion in Jerusalem, a symbol of the Jewish homeland in Palestine since the Babylonian captivity in the 6th century BC. The movement culminated in the birth of the state of Israel in 1948.

The movement dedicated to establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

Political and cultural movement calling for the return of the Jewish people to their Biblical home.

The nationalistic movement of the Jewish people. In modern times, it referred to the establishment of a Jewish state in what is now the modern State of Israel.

And so on and so forth.

Looked it up in my Oxford Dictionary and found this:

movement for the re-establishment and development of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

Soooo Leut, where exactly does Zionism=terrorism? Oh right, it doesn't.

And I love how you say someone is "dodging" your posts when they clearly say they will get to them when they have time. Interesting logic you have there.

For those who believe the "poor" Palestinians were forced out of their homelands, the original plan was to have coexistence between the Jews and Arabs of the region. But when Arabs started attacking Jews and Jewish businesses in the area, that's when it was realized that coexistence cannot occur with such an intolerant group.

[Leuthesius]

BD, what they were founded on, and what they did to get there are a *little* different. .

[penguin]

For those who believe the "poor" Palestinians were forced out of their homelands, the original plan was to have coexistence between the Jews and Arabs of the region. But when Arabs started attacking Jews and Jewish businesses in the area, that's when it was realized that coexistence cannot occur with such an intolerant group.

Hello sir, we've come to kick you out of your home and relocate you 100 miles east of here. Don't worry, we're making space for the Native Americans. I'm sure you can both co-exist peacefully even though you and your family have lived here for centuries and we just kicked you out of your house because we felt like it. Hey, it was their land anyway, don'chaknow? Don't think about attacking them! Or it will be your bad! Not theirs! They're not the ones taking over your house, you are taking over theirs!

[Chaos]

Leut's argument is historically incorrect and totally reliant upon assertion and his putting words in other people's mouths. As such, it is of basically no value. Of course I will demonstrate:

What you all fail to realize is that labeling me as an "anti-semite" is exactly the same thing that Zionism has been working on for the last hundred years. You automatically assume that Judaism and Zionism are one in the same when infact they are not.

Number of strawmen in paragraph: one. Please do not tell us what we do and do not "automatically assume."

Number of unsupported assertions in parapgrah: one. Feel free to support your silly assertion that Zionist ideology tells adherents to label opponents as anti-semitic.

Number of blanket generalizations in paragraph: one. Please do not ignorantly tell us about "Zionism" as if it is some singular entity. Zionism is very complicated. Zionists range from those who mean a "Greater Israel" spreading from the Mediterranean to the Euphrates to those who simply use it as a spiritual term meaning the Jewish connection with Eretz Israel, to the "mainstream" Zionism of a Jewish state in the land of the old Kingdoms of Israel and Judea.

If Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic, then why do normal Jewish people like in the following link put so much up against Zionism? I mean, Zionism is Judaism according to the Zionists. But according to Jewish Anti-Zionists, that is not the case.

Again, straw man. I would love for you to find this quote where I said Zionism = Judaism.

Zionism is a 'radical' political movement.
Judaism is a religion, and a way of life.

Pull your heads out of the sand already.

Once again, more ignorant unsupported assertions. Zionism, like any ideology, can have those who interpret it radically.

However, you are suggesting that the majority of the world's Jewish population are "radicals" who believe in a "terrorist" ideology.

The bigotry dripping from your posts is disgusting. Maybe instead of telling us to get our heads out of the sand in English you can just start copy-pasting articles from Der Sturmer?

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scr...s/jdecwar.html
The war by the international Jewish leadership on Germany not only sparked definite reprisals by the German government but also set the stage for a little-known economic and political alliance between the Hitler government and the leaders of the Zionist movement who hoped that the tension between the Germans and the Jews would lead to massive emigration to Palestine. In short, the result was a tactical alliance between the Nazis and the founders of the modern-day state of Israel - a fact that many today would prefer be forgotten.

This is anti-semitic garbage. Again we see the labelling of the Jews as some singular entity - "the leaders of the Zionist movement" - really? Or do you mean the leaders of a single Zionist faction in Israel, the Stern Gang?

The rest of your quoted babble is also anti-semitic, from lies about Mordechai ben Porat ( http://middleeastinfo.org/article2596.html ) to selectively quoting Jewish historical figures to create a false impression regarding Jewish thought regarding Zionism.

VENGEANCE

In 1941, long before there was any assembling of Jews for the supposed extermination camps, a Jew, Theodor N. Kaufman, wrote Germany Must Perish. Kaufman set out a plan for the total destruction of the German population by a very simple method: the mass sterilisation of all German men and women between the age of puberty and sixty years. He described the construction of the organisation for doing this. This book was the basis of the Morgenthau Plan for the total destruction of German industry and the enslavement of the German race. Naturally these intentions of Germany's enemy got into the hands of the German propaganda minister Goebbels, and it stiffened the resistance of the German nation to avoid defeat. The Morgenthau Plan formed the basis of discussions between President Roosevelt and Soviet leader Stalin acting through his liaison officer, the Soviet Jew Zabrousky, and also formed the basis of the Yalta Agreement.

Just look at this anti-semitic garbage.

First we have the author trying to make the impression that Hitler did not intend to slaughter the world's Jewry, that the Jews were out to destroy Germany first:

"In 1941, long before there was any assembling of Jews for the supposed extermination camps, a Jew, Theodor N. Kaufman, wrote Germany Must Perish."

How very nice, except that the SS death squads were already roaming around Poland slaughtering people in 1939.

This is disgusting. Blood libel and a Jewish conspiracy to destroy Germany. Classic European nineteenth century anti-semitism.

Leut you sicken me.

There now. I have provided links and resources to support my argument. Supported by the very Jews you all think I hate.

You have terribly misrepresented the scope of Jewish anti-Zionism and linked to anti-semitic material.

To make it clear: Jewish anti-Zionism is a fringe subset of the Jewish political community. It mostly exists on the far Right in Israeli politics, and on the far Left among Jews who do not live in Israel.

On the Right, most Jewish anti-Zionists believe that Eretz Israel can only be the true homeland of the Jewish people when it is given to them by the Messiah upon his appearance, and that human attempts to build Eretz Israel are heretical.

Also upon the Right, some Orthodox Jew anti-Zionists believe that the secular parts of the Israeli state and the secular nature of Israeli society are heretical and that mainstream Zionists have betrayed the most important (religious) pillars of Zionism.

Of course on the Left you have raving lunatics like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein.

Now step off of this Hitler Anti-Jew crap.

I am an ANTI-ZIONIST.

You are an anti-semite and from now on you're also ignored. Have a nice day you fucking anti-semitic pig.

[Chaos]

Penguin:

You and Browndawg are both historically inaccurate.

Your condescending, shrill mockery isn't scoring you any points anywhere, especially seeing as how it bears no resemblance to what happened in either North America between the Native Americans and European colonists or in Palestine in 1947 and 1948.

These simplistic black-and-white narrow views of history despite the easily available documentation showing that Native Americans were not all some noble bunch of hunter-gatherers and occasional farmers and that the Arabs were not all (actually the number expelled is very low compared to the number who voluntarily fled, and as for the few times that Jewish militias actually did expel Arab villagers from their homes, such things inevitably and unfortunately happen in all wars) forcibly expelled from the Mandate by the Jews is perplexing to me. It seems like when Jews become involved people immediately stop thinking and start relying totally on silly emotion.

[NectarSweet]

Zionism, like most political movements has people in it who are extreme. Assuming these people are any more evil or deserving of your hate than any other political movement is in essence racist (for lack of a better term) simply because unless the movement actually follows through on these people views (ie, the zionists start annexing arab land or whatever) then it is just the opinion of one person. It is no different to a republican saying that the arab countries should just be wiped off the face of the planet because it would make life far easier. Unless the republican party actually attempts to do that, then its not the view of the republican party is it?

Likewise, it is not the zionists fault if someone claiming to be zionist has extreme views, and only becomes a problem when those views become mainstream zionist.

But then, that asks the question what is the mainstream zionist viewpoint?
Control of the land of Isreal, and self governance of said land.
Freedom from religious persecution, primarily by existing in your own country.

The only problem I see with zionism, is the mix of religion and power. to me, that has always been a dangerous mix.