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Thread: September/October Discussion Topic - The Zerg Creep

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    Default September/October Discussion Topic - The Zerg Creep

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    Discussion Topic: Zerg Creep

    One of the distinct features of the Zerg is their fast movement, quick reactions and their large numbers. With the newest changes to the StarCraft II build these attributes are bound to reinforced once more.

    Here are a couple of changes to the Zerg:

    • Zerg units except Drones can now move 30% faster on creep
    • Creep Tumors are smaller and burrowed


    These changes will have a big impact on Zerg strategy, since covering terrain with Creep will now be very important. We will see Overlord rushes with mass spewing of creep and Zerg fast micro on creep. The burrowed Creep Tumors will force the other races to get quick detection to push back the Zerg Creep and take their fast movement.


    Questions for Fans:

    • What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
    • How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
    • Do you like or dislike the change? Why?


    Please structure feedback as follows:

    -----
    <question you'd like to answer>
    <your answer>

    <question you'd like to answer>
    <your answer>
    -----

    Were looking forward to seeing great discussions on the Zerg Creep.
    Please take this seriously as we report all of this directly to Blizzard. If you have already posted your thoughts please either repost them or link to them so when we send all the info to Blizz we don't miss anything. As the debate evolves on we'll (the staff) be interjecting new suggestions and questions.

    SC:Legacy Official News Post

    ~LoA

  2. #2
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    Okay...

    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    I think that it should apply for Zerg ground units only, support units. Reason being the "main/basic" units are very straight forward already.

    Zergling, Hydralisk, Roach and Ultralisk should not benefit.

    Baneling, Lurker, Infestor, Queen and Morphalisk should.


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    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    I disapprove entirely of this. This isn't Warcraft, with small numbers of units with auras and heroes with abilities. Starcraft is meant to be simple masses of units, with simple mechanics. The Zerg already have a quick and efficent manner of transfering Zerg units from base to base using the Nydus network. Granting them even more privileges for running around on creep, which is supposed to be a LIMITER, will only provide harder balancing issues.
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    What do you think of the speed increase on creep?

    Interesting, but only acceptable if it does NOT involve a concomitant reduction in off-creep speed. Fast Zerg units are fast, and might get faster on creep, but wouldn't rely on it. I would tolerate some of the non-fast units (Lurker, Ultra) to have a slower speed off of the creep.

    I definitely do like the idea that the Zerg swarm and their creep are designed to move as one across the map. It sounds like the plan is for any skilled Zerg player to always have his ovies there dropping creep when he wants to fight. This core goal is something I strongly support. However, there might be other ways to do it than movement speed (health regen, HP boost, attack speed, etc).

    @ DSquid I don't see how this has much to do with WC3. If anything, an area-based mechanic like this is more conducive to large-army battles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    @ DSquid I don't see how this has much to do with WC3. If anything, an area-based mechanic like this is more conducive to large-army battles.
    The more units you have taking advantage of an AoE ability, the more powerful it becomes, and thus the more unbalanced.
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    I support the idea of spreading creep being a major goal of the Zerg for both flavor reasons and game reasons. I think improving the performance of attacking units on creep is a great way to do that, and speed is probably the easiest way to do that. The most important and difficult aspect would be balancing the spreadability of creep and the benefits that it provides against the other two races. Assuming it works smoothly, I can see this plan introducing tactically and strategically rich dimensions to the zerg game which are very in tune with the idea of a planetary "infestation" and total zerg conversion. Zerg units which work in isolation from the rest of the hive should be at a disadvantage, whereas assaulting the hive on its own territory should be difficult and frightening, and the other races should constantly be under the threat of the zerg hive expanding and swallowing the map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    I disapprove entirely of this[B].
    Blizzard told us at WWI that they intend to use creep as a resource. It was a limiter in StarCraft I, just like pylon power. The protoss have turned pylon power into an advantage (with the phase prism), and the zerg are doing likewise.

    By the way, that url doesn't go anywhere.
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    Questions for Fans:

    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    It opens up a lot of micro possibilities on creep, and sounds like it will make for a great Z v Z game.


    How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?


    Z v Z will be an interesting mu, assuming that you won't just receive the speed boost on friendly creep. Not sure how to comment on P v Z or T v Z without having played the game.


    Do you like or dislike the change? Why?


    I like the idea a lot. Not only does it boost micro possibilities, it will increase macro for Zerg players who constantly try to "swarm" the map with the creep "resource".
    Last edited by ggfobster; 09-15-2008 at 05:05 PM.

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    Overlords has just became awesome :o

    Depending on how the balance works out, this will have huge effects on how Zerg uses the map. The first few overlords may become a critical unit for many strategies (zergling run by, for example) if the ability comes early enough. A "creep highway" will probably be important for map control reasons. A creep highway, incidentally, is easiest in a place of good poor ground access as some cheap AA unit can keep the ovies safe, when such narrow pathways have historically be the bane of Zergs. Tactically, this ability is similar to darkswarm and would probably be dealt with the same way. (in the sense backing off is the counter)

    A great special ability similar to phase prism with warpgate.

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    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    It makes me nervous, simple as that. While Creep-spreading should be a great new strategy for the Zerg, I think this could be imbalanced. Faster Zerg on creep could give the seige-defense to the Zerg, especially with moving Spine crawlers and such. And with Nydus Canals, I don't see why there should be such a huge advantage tacked on to creep spreading.

    Of course, I could be wrong. If it's balanced well, I'll be super-fine with it. I can just see it being Overpowered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    Interesting, but only acceptable if it does NOT involve a concomitant reduction in off-creep speed. Fast Zerg units are fast, and might get faster on creep, but wouldn't rely on it. I would tolerate some of the non-fast units (Lurker, Ultra) to have a slower speed off of the creep.

    I'm in agreement with SpiderBrigade here. :]

    But that said, I actually like things the way they are right now without creep being this thing that a Zerg player 'should' do when attacking. With Zerg, I feel that fancy tricks should be kept to a minimum and that they should win through brute force of economy and production.

    I won't deny that this mechanic opens up a bunch of new tactics that a Zerg player can use, but to me, they just don't seem particularly fun =/.

    However, it's really hard to comment on this without seeing it in action. Although I have a deep love for the RTS genre, I'm not a professional gamer myself, and there are ways that this mechanic can be utilised that I'm sure won't occur to me.
    Last edited by GRUNT; 09-15-2008 at 07:58 PM.

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    My main concern is how it affect ZvZ matches. Both sides, by necessity, have Creep in their mains. Does this mean that Zerglings will effectively become SpeedLings just by attacking? Granted, so do theirs, but there is some cause for concern as to how it affects an already micro-heavy match like ZvZ.
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    all zerg units should be allowed to move while burrowed on creeps. burrowing mechanics should be given importance too. and there should be an anti burrowed units for the terran/protoss.

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    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    Mixed feelings, I love the fact that Blizzard is trying to make the Creep less of a "building restriction" and more as an actual asset to the Zerg, but increase speed is not what the Zerg need. Zerg units are plenty fast, even more so with improved pathing and (thank god) inf. unit selection. Maybe insted of increasing Zerg speed by 30%, it slowed enemy movment by 10% so you could Creep-harras, i.e. putting a patch of Creep at the base of a ramp, or surround your enemy units with Creep using overlords so when the enemy retreats they are slowed. Some obscure general ability like that has obvious uses, but its that vauge-ness that allows professionalls to implement it in unexpected and fantastic ways.(i.e. putting creep on the enemy worker line to slow them down on travle speed, its not much but it makes a difference)
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    What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?

    It think it's ok but I'd rather have a decrease of enemy ground speed, and in no way 30% that's just crazy; 5 - 10% max. Starcraft 2 is becoming to much black and white; we need some gray in there too. Not every unit should have a direct counter and/or be good against just one type of enemy.

    - Plus it should be an upgrade for the creep tumors. The more advanced tumors create a more malicious creep.

    - Maybe invisible ground units should become visible if in contact with the creep for more than, let's say 30-60 seconds. If not for multiplayer maybe for single.

    - It would also be cool if nukes would clear the ground of creep where they hit, at least temporarily if Zerg tumors are still around. Don't know exactly what the protoss would do.

    Just some thoughts.
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